Kinda of a trim question.

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Mar 21, 2004
2,175
Hunter 356 Cobb Island, MD
Don, We have a H356 with a asym sail. So far when we what to jibe we douse the sail with the sock, center the main make the turn set the main, then fly it again. I want to try to the jibe without dousing the sail. Can you explain a good way to do this or am I already doing the best method. This is not racing just sailing along enjoying myself. And sometime you will need to explain this move to Arizona? Jim S/V Java
 
Oct 11, 2007
105
Island Packet IP31 Patuxent River, MD
trim question

Jim; consult the latest Sail magazine for an excellent article on this subject
 
May 17, 2004
2,111
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
Kinda of a trim question

Jim: I hope the answer is in the latest Sail magazine because I stink on asym sails. The move to AZ is simple - it is economics. There was too much money tied up in our house, which we could not get to and plus we wanted to take advantage of the market. How long the seller real estate market is going to exist is not known but it can't last forever. The bubble is going to burst. We bought our house here about 25 years ago for about $95K, which I thought was highway robbery at the time, and just sold it for over $700K in 5 days and had 3 people fighting over it! Southern Ca has change since I came here in 1970 and I'm just sick of SO,SO many aspects of it. Where we are going in Tucson is 30 miles north of the city at about 3500' and up against the mountains. It is a active adult community called Saddlebrooke, which is a Robson development. They have a number of communities in AZ and a big one in Dallas. Another big factor is the Tucson area is 38% less expensive than So Ca. We spent over 1 year traveling all over the place (FL, TX, WA, Oregon, No Ca, AZ, and UT)looking for a place to retire to. When we stumbled onto this location in Tucson we knew we had found it. The value at our house in Saddlebrooke has increased over $45,000 since we locked in May and we have not put a shovel in the ground so we are at it again from a increasing value situation.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Gybing an A-Spinn.

There are various ways to gybe an asymmetrical spinnaker depends on on how and where the spinnnaker halyard attaches to the masthead. OUTSIDE GYBE. If the sail is attached to a mashead 'spinnaker crane' or other such 'architecture' that holds the head of the sail 'way out in front' of the top swivel of a genoa furling system, then you are limited to an 'out and around' gybe .... 'everything' (including both spinnaker sheets) must pass in front of the forestay. The 'secret' is to keep wind into the spinnnaker (not or minimally blanketed by the mainsail) so that the sail 'wants' to fly 'ahead' of the forestay when gybing .... instead of forming a huge 'bubble' that is hard to control and if you lose control may 'wrap' around the forestay. You want the spinnaker to be 'flying like a flag' totally in front of the boat 'before' you start pulling in on the 'other' sheet. Bring the mainsail to the centerline BEFORE you begin to release the spinn sheet. Ease the original sheet and let the spinnaker TOTALLY blow out in front of the forestay.... dont get impatient and pull in too fast with the other sheet. As the boat is s-l-o-w-l-y gybed and at the instant that the boom swings over to the other side, then start to pull in on the opposite sheet as you continue to head up from the gybe. You want a good flow of air to keep the spinnaker in FRONT of the forestay. Once the boat is on the other tack, then you can begin to retrim the spinnaker for the new track and then ease out the mainsail. A good way to learn this is to 'partly reef' the spinnaker with the sock .... about halfway down etc. so that the flatter lower sections are still filled; but, the 'rounded' top sections are protected by the sock. Gybing in light winds will/may present a problem, especially if the spinnnaker sheets are tooooooo heavy. You want lightweight sheets and more preferably sheets that have had the 'core' removed in those sections that you dont touch with your hands. INSIDE GYBE. If the spinnaker is attached without a 'spinnaker crane' (ie.: the spinnnaker halyard comes out of the mast at a simple sheeve AND that sheeve is BELOW the forstay attachment .... then you can do an INSIDE gybe (or gybing the spinnaker 'through the foretriangle' formed by the mast and forestay: Bring the main to the centerline, pull IN on the spinnaker sheet as you begin the gybe process; this will pull the cew of the spinn AFT on the original side. The sheets are so arranged such that they also pass bthrough the the foretrangle (not in front of the forestay as in the first method) far as it will come - the foot of the spinnaker is made taught on the side of the 'original' tack. Slowly gybe the boat until the spinnaker becomes backwinded (on the original side), when the boat is well past the 'eye' of the gybe and is on the new tack, pull in on the NEW sheet (to pull it through the foretrangle (this will keep it from tangling onto the forestay), s-l-o-w-ly release the original sheet until the spinnnaker goes *through the foretriangle' and then begin to pull on the new sheet as you continue to pull IN on the 'new' sheet, Once on the new tack, begin to releast the spinn sheet to correctlly trim it. Dont ease of release any spinn sheet until the spinn begins to be fully windloaded and on the 'new' tack. Obvioulsy you need to have rigging that has no sharp edges nor any prominences that can catch or tear the spinnaker. OH horrors .... I now have a bubble in the spinnaker because its wrapped around the forestay .... maybe wrapped around the forestay SEVERAL times. No amount of tugging and pulling on the luff or leech will free it and its totally 'stuck' (the wind is rising and there is a severe thunderstorm on the horizon, etc.) Remedy: apply a 'preventer to the boom and pull the boom FORWARD as far as it will go ... on the same side that the boom was when the bubble first formed. Slowly bring the boat to sail on the LEE (with preventer attached) and the bubble will unwrap all by itself. Watch carefully which way the bubble is unwrapping or wrapping ... and angle the stern so that the right air flow 'unwraps the bubble'. You may have to 'scallop up' several times to unwrap many bubbles .... but by putting/ the boom to the leeward while using a preventer will cause the 'reverse flow of air' that originally caused the bubble ... and the bubble will unwind - all by itself. An 'adverse' flow of wind wrapped the spinnaker around the forestay, now use (control) an adverse wind flow by preventing the boom flying on the lee - to 'unwrap' it. You dont have to fully douse a spinnnaker with a sock to gybe it. Try 'reefing' less and less with a sock as you perfect your technique .... ultimately you will want stop using that sock entirely and loose those two extra line that easily tangle, etc. In any case be SURE that the head of the spinnnaker DOES NOT become jammed/caught/rolled/tangled into the head of the genoa or genoa furler top swivel when you roll/furl the genoa. If you're unsure or dont have a large mast crane that holds the spinnaker AWAY from all the furling gear at the TOP, fully furl the genoa before you fly the spinnnaker .... so you dont have to go up the mast with a knife in your teeth to cut away a jammed furler/tangled spinnaker head. If you dont have one, consider to add a spinnaker mast crane. Hope this helps.
 
Jun 2, 2004
425
- - Sandusky Harbor Marina, Lake Erie
2 sheets twice the boat length

Rig two sheets to the clew of the asymetric. Each should be twice the length of the boat. While seeting up the asymetric, the leeward sheet is led the same as you do it today. The windward sheet is led outside of all standing or running rigging around the forestay. and back to the turning block at the windward rear quarter. To gybe, you release the leeward sheet until the sail streams straight out in front of the boat. You gybe the main, and then haul in the (former) windward, now leeward sheet to trim the asymetric on the new gybe. Good luck! We are still dropping the sock, and shifting the sheet around the forestay, but I know many who do it as described. Our Doyle sailmaker was the first to describe it to us when we bought the sail. David Lady Lillie
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,323
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
jibing the asym

I've found that the secret to jibing the kite is to steer the boat underneath it as it floats out front, just as you do on a regular spinnaker. A succesful jibe is all about the helmsman controlling the turn under the sail. You don't really have to let the sail flag completely out front, but the clew needs ample room to clear the forestay as you steer slowly through the turn. Another thing I'm found convenient is to rig a 4 or 5 foot piece of line to the sail's clew, with a loop on the free end for attaching the sheets. This makes it easier to find the clew inside the sock when getting set up, it also makes it easier to connect the sheets, especially if you're using the plastic shackles.
 

Alan

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Jun 2, 2004
4,174
Hunter 35.5 LI, NY
Inside vs Outside Jibe

RichH has the Outside Jibe correct, except he forgot to mention that the spinnaker sheets not only have to be set outside the forestay but ALSO the spinnaker tack. An Inside Jibe is where the spinnaker tack passes between the forestay and its own luff. For this setup, the spinnaker sheets are set in front of the forestay BUT behind the tack. Absolutely noone should jibe their spinnaker through the foretriangle. A halyard that exits the mast BELOW the forestay is NOT a spinnaker halyard and will wind up being chafed to death in very short order if used on a spinnaker.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Alan ....

On the many of smaller 'production' boats nowadays there is unfortunately only a double sheeve (genoa halyard + spare) and NO spinnnaker sheeve exit above the forestay attachment point at all --- not even a simple bail to attach a swivel block. Therefore one is forced to accept the inevitable chafe that results from using one of the 'lower' sheeves. An addtion of a spinnaker crane is the solution but not something commonly done nor found on smaller 'production' boats.
 

Alan

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Jun 2, 2004
4,174
Hunter 35.5 LI, NY
Sorry, but I MUST disagree.

Using a genoa halyard for a spinnaker halyard just because it happens to be there, is simply not good enough. If you want to fly a spinnaker, you'll need to install a halyard for it. Using and chafing a halyard, just waiting for it to break doesn't sound like a smart plan.
 
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