help I am stupid on this matter. I need advise. does anyone know the disadvantge and advantages of sailing a ketch verses a sloop? I will be sailing in lake michgan and have read that going windward the ketch does not handle well. Does it really make a big different in sailing with one person? I like this ketch but am considered about how much different she is from sailing a sloop?
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LaDonna Bubak - CatalinaOwners
Go with the one you like
If you're a relative novice, you'll learn just as fast on a ketch as a sloop. And, IMHO, sail handling on a ketch is much easier cuz of the lesser area of each sail. Don't be intimidated by ketches, just read up on how to sail them. As far as going to windward, you're probably not going to see an appreciable difference. Sure you may not head up quite as well but all boats are different. Some sloops point better than others. So what? You'll still be able to beat, just off the wind slightly more than other boats. No biggie at all. Basically, it's like this. If you like the ketch, buy it. Learn how to sail it and you'll be sailing better than 75% of the people sailing "faster" boats! Have fun with it! LaDonna
If you're a relative novice, you'll learn just as fast on a ketch as a sloop. And, IMHO, sail handling on a ketch is much easier cuz of the lesser area of each sail. Don't be intimidated by ketches, just read up on how to sail them. As far as going to windward, you're probably not going to see an appreciable difference. Sure you may not head up quite as well but all boats are different. Some sloops point better than others. So what? You'll still be able to beat, just off the wind slightly more than other boats. No biggie at all. Basically, it's like this. If you like the ketch, buy it. Learn how to sail it and you'll be sailing better than 75% of the people sailing "faster" boats! Have fun with it! LaDonna
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Roland
Ketch vs. Sloop
I couldn't agree with LaDonna more. The past dozen or so years in the sailing charter business has afforded me the opportunity to sail many different rigs. When I start looking to upgrade to a bigger boat (who isn't ?) to do some extended cruising (hopefully), I will definitely give preference to a ketch rig for all the reasons LaDonna mentioned plus having several options of sail plans to set lets you sail more comfortably in a variety of conditions. If you like the boat, go for it. -Roland S/V Fraulein II
I couldn't agree with LaDonna more. The past dozen or so years in the sailing charter business has afforded me the opportunity to sail many different rigs. When I start looking to upgrade to a bigger boat (who isn't ?) to do some extended cruising (hopefully), I will definitely give preference to a ketch rig for all the reasons LaDonna mentioned plus having several options of sail plans to set lets you sail more comfortably in a variety of conditions. If you like the boat, go for it. -Roland S/V Fraulein II
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Paul
Sloop vs. Ketch
A few things to consider. How big is the boat you are looking at? A ketch makes more sense for a bigger boat (to reduce sail size) than for a smaller or meduim size boat. A ketch also has a mast in the cockpit in front of the wheel. One more thing to impede your vision, and it clutters the cockpit. Since the ketch has 2 masts and 2 booms, you naturally increase maintenance. Extra running rigging, standing rigging, chainplates (ie leaks), a wire connecting the 2 masts (if one mast comes down the other one probably will too), 2 mast steps (are they rotted out), 2 holes in the deck instead of 1, etc. I do not disagree with LaDonna or Roland. Just some things to think about. Also, I have no experience with ketches and would never advise someone not to get one. I look at it from a mantenance standpoint. If you like it get it. Good luck, Paul
A few things to consider. How big is the boat you are looking at? A ketch makes more sense for a bigger boat (to reduce sail size) than for a smaller or meduim size boat. A ketch also has a mast in the cockpit in front of the wheel. One more thing to impede your vision, and it clutters the cockpit. Since the ketch has 2 masts and 2 booms, you naturally increase maintenance. Extra running rigging, standing rigging, chainplates (ie leaks), a wire connecting the 2 masts (if one mast comes down the other one probably will too), 2 mast steps (are they rotted out), 2 holes in the deck instead of 1, etc. I do not disagree with LaDonna or Roland. Just some things to think about. Also, I have no experience with ketches and would never advise someone not to get one. I look at it from a mantenance standpoint. If you like it get it. Good luck, Paul
The split rig simply put.
The single biggest drawback I know to a split rig (two masts) is the potentially frightening experience of handing the mizzen in a blow. On a Cherubini 44 this means standing with your feet 4 ft off the water on slippery varnished teak coamings WELL over where the lifelines could catch you if you lost balance or were hurled off. I have done this several times in 40-50 kts and it is NO PICNIC (hard to pray on Rosary whilst doing it too). This said, there is a very simple alternative which I am surprised to see very few people comprehend. A prudent designer will specify adequately stout stay configuration and rigging wire size to allow the mizzen to be used as the storm sail. The mizzen on a yawl, for example, is ideal for this-- not too much sail area to get you into trouble, exactly in the right place to trim close to the wind, and easily tended even from the cockpit (just turn around!). Still everyone seems to think you should bring in the mizzen immediately. Yet the boat will probably handle infinitely better under inner headsail and mizzen than with any other combination. Compare this to a sloop where neither sail alone is really where you want it in a blow-- most guys run away from it with headsail alone or try to lay the boat down on a tight tack (halfway hove-to), but with a ketch you can probably still make way on course in the same conditions. The centre of effort of the mizzen and inner headsail together is low enough that the heel angle probably won't even be too bad. Reef both once or even twice and wait it out. Even/especially for beginners I would advocate the split rig in a 35-ft-ish yacht if only for the lessons to be learnt in sail trim and balancing the boat (a ketch is a cinch to get to self-steer). When you get all those slots right it will be a thing of beauty. Also what the others have said is true too-- you won't notice any detriment in boat speed or pointing angle if you know what you are doing or when the rest of the people are looking like dolts out there. In fact they might all believe 'more sails = faster boat'!!! JC
The single biggest drawback I know to a split rig (two masts) is the potentially frightening experience of handing the mizzen in a blow. On a Cherubini 44 this means standing with your feet 4 ft off the water on slippery varnished teak coamings WELL over where the lifelines could catch you if you lost balance or were hurled off. I have done this several times in 40-50 kts and it is NO PICNIC (hard to pray on Rosary whilst doing it too). This said, there is a very simple alternative which I am surprised to see very few people comprehend. A prudent designer will specify adequately stout stay configuration and rigging wire size to allow the mizzen to be used as the storm sail. The mizzen on a yawl, for example, is ideal for this-- not too much sail area to get you into trouble, exactly in the right place to trim close to the wind, and easily tended even from the cockpit (just turn around!). Still everyone seems to think you should bring in the mizzen immediately. Yet the boat will probably handle infinitely better under inner headsail and mizzen than with any other combination. Compare this to a sloop where neither sail alone is really where you want it in a blow-- most guys run away from it with headsail alone or try to lay the boat down on a tight tack (halfway hove-to), but with a ketch you can probably still make way on course in the same conditions. The centre of effort of the mizzen and inner headsail together is low enough that the heel angle probably won't even be too bad. Reef both once or even twice and wait it out. Even/especially for beginners I would advocate the split rig in a 35-ft-ish yacht if only for the lessons to be learnt in sail trim and balancing the boat (a ketch is a cinch to get to self-steer). When you get all those slots right it will be a thing of beauty. Also what the others have said is true too-- you won't notice any detriment in boat speed or pointing angle if you know what you are doing or when the rest of the people are looking like dolts out there. In fact they might all believe 'more sails = faster boat'!!! JC
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