He may not have solo'd around the world, but he sure is acting like he did with all the major news he is getting. Yet not a peep out of the gal who is also sailing solo around the world. Wow... and he says he would do it again. *pft*
Ken Barns...
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If he tries again with the same quality of
preparation he will probably have the same result. These two people sailing in the same part of the ocean are demonstrating to the world the value of good planning and attitude. If you should read her reports you learn first off the current weather details, her present course, speed and position. I don't think that anyone could deliberately plan such a contrast in style and competency as we have been presented. Study them well and learn from them both.
preparation he will probably have the same result. These two people sailing in the same part of the ocean are demonstrating to the world the value of good planning and attitude. If you should read her reports you learn first off the current weather details, her present course, speed and position. I don't think that anyone could deliberately plan such a contrast in style and competency as we have been presented. Study them well and learn from them both.
any ketch or Yawl sailiors out there?
Ok what ive read and heard is that Ken had following, cresting seas 25', winds 40knot with gusts 50. Ken was sailing with genny rolled and main down and lashed, however the missen was fully raised. When a 50k gust blew onto his starboard quarter the stern was pushed to port causing the bow to round to starboard and rolling into the troughth of an on coming wave, dismasting. Ive never sailed anything but sloops. but in those conditions I dont think ANY sail should have been up only engine power, and if any sail was up either a storm tri sail, or storm jib. Sailing technique thoughts?????
Ok what ive read and heard is that Ken had following, cresting seas 25', winds 40knot with gusts 50. Ken was sailing with genny rolled and main down and lashed, however the missen was fully raised. When a 50k gust blew onto his starboard quarter the stern was pushed to port causing the bow to round to starboard and rolling into the troughth of an on coming wave, dismasting. Ive never sailed anything but sloops. but in those conditions I dont think ANY sail should have been up only engine power, and if any sail was up either a storm tri sail, or storm jib. Sailing technique thoughts?????
Sailed a yawl in some bad conditions ...
Tom ... Crewed on a yawl for awhile many years ago. In the conditions described, maintaining the right speed relative to the waves is critical. Racing, we'd have a small jib up, nothing else. But it can get blanketed by the waves and you loose speed control. Cruising, assuming you have the fuel, all sails are down and the aux is in gear and ticking over. Easy to add a bit of power to control speed, and makes for a livlier rudder action. NEVER would we just have a mizzen up. Turning moment is way aft, not a good thing, as he discovered. Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
Tom ... Crewed on a yawl for awhile many years ago. In the conditions described, maintaining the right speed relative to the waves is critical. Racing, we'd have a small jib up, nothing else. But it can get blanketed by the waves and you loose speed control. Cruising, assuming you have the fuel, all sails are down and the aux is in gear and ticking over. Easy to add a bit of power to control speed, and makes for a livlier rudder action. NEVER would we just have a mizzen up. Turning moment is way aft, not a good thing, as he discovered. Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
what would you do?
While 40K winds and gust to 50 are no fun by any stretch of the imagination, In itself , that would not put me in survival mode. It would just be a really rough day using storm tactics. But now couple that with 25 ft cresting waves and then i would probably shift to survival mode and survival tactics. I would deffinately leave the Mizzen up, and maybe reef it if i could. The mizzen is a really small sail in comparison to the other sails and sail area to displacement ratio. I doubt if i would leave the mizzen up without some kind of headsail. A staysail if he is cutter rigged. This would give better balance and steerage. Definately no main sail at all. No doubt the engine would be running also. Now,this is all a bunch of speculative BS. I can only say what i think i would while im sitting in relative warmth and safety. I dont really know what i would do. Im tired, as anyone that solo sails any distance at all can tell you, I'm cold, im scared to death, i'm confused, im not sure what my communications are and how well they are received. Im hanging on so i dont get flung across the boat and get seriously injured. To say the least, all hell is breaking lose. What would you do?. You cant say if you have never been there. The only thing that I know I wouldnt do is leave the mizzen up all by itself. The mizzen, being set so far aft acts like a weathervane and a gust from a different direction would definately turn the boat, as apparently it did. Other than that, i dont know. Maybe he felt that if the jib or staysail were up, it could get swamped by a wave and cause havoc. We just dont know. I also dont thin i would want to run on engine alone. In those seas and winds the engine wouldnt give you that much steerage. I have been caught in 50K winds with gusts over 60 for a period of about 10 hours in my Catalina 25 in the Gulf of Mexico about 25 miles offshore, all alone. I didnt think i was going to die or anything like that, but i also had 10 -12 ft seas not 25's. Way big difference there.
While 40K winds and gust to 50 are no fun by any stretch of the imagination, In itself , that would not put me in survival mode. It would just be a really rough day using storm tactics. But now couple that with 25 ft cresting waves and then i would probably shift to survival mode and survival tactics. I would deffinately leave the Mizzen up, and maybe reef it if i could. The mizzen is a really small sail in comparison to the other sails and sail area to displacement ratio. I doubt if i would leave the mizzen up without some kind of headsail. A staysail if he is cutter rigged. This would give better balance and steerage. Definately no main sail at all. No doubt the engine would be running also. Now,this is all a bunch of speculative BS. I can only say what i think i would while im sitting in relative warmth and safety. I dont really know what i would do. Im tired, as anyone that solo sails any distance at all can tell you, I'm cold, im scared to death, i'm confused, im not sure what my communications are and how well they are received. Im hanging on so i dont get flung across the boat and get seriously injured. To say the least, all hell is breaking lose. What would you do?. You cant say if you have never been there. The only thing that I know I wouldnt do is leave the mizzen up all by itself. The mizzen, being set so far aft acts like a weathervane and a gust from a different direction would definately turn the boat, as apparently it did. Other than that, i dont know. Maybe he felt that if the jib or staysail were up, it could get swamped by a wave and cause havoc. We just dont know. I also dont thin i would want to run on engine alone. In those seas and winds the engine wouldnt give you that much steerage. I have been caught in 50K winds with gusts over 60 for a period of about 10 hours in my Catalina 25 in the Gulf of Mexico about 25 miles offshore, all alone. I didnt think i was going to die or anything like that, but i also had 10 -12 ft seas not 25's. Way big difference there.
Say something nice
My mom taught me thet I should say something nice or not say anything at all. Let us all mind our manners, give Ken Barnes some rest. Thanks to all.
My mom taught me thet I should say something nice or not say anything at all. Let us all mind our manners, give Ken Barnes some rest. Thanks to all.
If ken Barnes won't brag about
his attempt then I won't shoot holes in his story. I would be very pleased to see him write a critical review of his preparations, storm tactics, damage control efforts, route planning, What he did while awaiting rescue. Did he make any plans for how he would handle not being rescued? I think a public debriefing is in order.
his attempt then I won't shoot holes in his story. I would be very pleased to see him write a critical review of his preparations, storm tactics, damage control efforts, route planning, What he did while awaiting rescue. Did he make any plans for how he would handle not being rescued? I think a public debriefing is in order.
"I think a public debriefing is in order."
Ross, you want Ken to take his underwear off? In public? Maybe the guy made some mistakes but isn't this a bit much?
Ross, you want Ken to take his underwear off? In public? Maybe the guy made some mistakes but isn't this a bit much?
Why not Heave-to?
While I've never done this in the reported conditions specifically breaking 25 foot waves, it does work at stabilizing the boat with a little minding of the trim when the conditons change. I haven't heard really any mention of this storm tactic on any of the threads related to this story. I don't want to start things off again about KB's preperations and practicing tactics for his boat, but I would like to know if others feel this tactic is viable. The little bit of heaving-to I've done and the Pardey book on the subject convince me this is something I'll resort to pretty quickly when things get hairy. Seems like a ketch with mizzen alone is right next to lying-ahull, something I won't do until every stitch of cloth has been shreaded and I've passed-out from steering downwind for days under bareboles towing all my anchors. Cheers all, HughR
While I've never done this in the reported conditions specifically breaking 25 foot waves, it does work at stabilizing the boat with a little minding of the trim when the conditons change. I haven't heard really any mention of this storm tactic on any of the threads related to this story. I don't want to start things off again about KB's preperations and practicing tactics for his boat, but I would like to know if others feel this tactic is viable. The little bit of heaving-to I've done and the Pardey book on the subject convince me this is something I'll resort to pretty quickly when things get hairy. Seems like a ketch with mizzen alone is right next to lying-ahull, something I won't do until every stitch of cloth has been shreaded and I've passed-out from steering downwind for days under bareboles towing all my anchors. Cheers all, HughR
Doesn't anyone remember
back your storm jib, lash the tiller/wheel the opposite way and never ever keep a mizzen only up in storm conditions. If you are on a lee shore different set of rules, but if you have sea room lash her down and stay below, it may be uncomfortable but in general you will give up before your yacht does. Robert
back your storm jib, lash the tiller/wheel the opposite way and never ever keep a mizzen only up in storm conditions. If you are on a lee shore different set of rules, but if you have sea room lash her down and stay below, it may be uncomfortable but in general you will give up before your yacht does. Robert
Never heave-to in breaking wave conditions
When you heave-to you put the boat at an angle to the oncoming breaking waves. It only takes one to capsize you when you are broadside to them. In the book "Storm Tactics" the author sites numerous personal examples of boats trying this and immediately finding out that it does not work. In non breaking seas it works fine but it is not a long term tactic in a building sea where the waves will eventually start to break. Better to head into the wind and waves or run with them. To do that you need a set of for real storm sails. Of course you would also need to have them on board...... I think it is called being prepared.
When you heave-to you put the boat at an angle to the oncoming breaking waves. It only takes one to capsize you when you are broadside to them. In the book "Storm Tactics" the author sites numerous personal examples of boats trying this and immediately finding out that it does not work. In non breaking seas it works fine but it is not a long term tactic in a building sea where the waves will eventually start to break. Better to head into the wind and waves or run with them. To do that you need a set of for real storm sails. Of course you would also need to have them on board...... I think it is called being prepared.
Arturo, It takes a real man to admit his mistakes.
Ross, you want Ken to take his underwear off? In public? Maybe the guy made some mistakes but isn't this a bit much? End Quote. I don't care a darn thing about his drawers. But if he continues to say he will do it agaain if he can raise the money will ring a much more true note if he speaks of what he will change. Bill, "Storm Tactics" should be required reading for all who would venture the sea in small boats.
Ross, you want Ken to take his underwear off? In public? Maybe the guy made some mistakes but isn't this a bit much? End Quote. I don't care a darn thing about his drawers. But if he continues to say he will do it agaain if he can raise the money will ring a much more true note if he speaks of what he will change. Bill, "Storm Tactics" should be required reading for all who would venture the sea in small boats.
Ross...
Who wrote Storm Tactics? I plan to get it and keep it handy. (After I read it of course!) Thanks Jack Hart SEA-YA!
Who wrote Storm Tactics? I plan to get it and keep it handy. (After I read it of course!) Thanks Jack Hart SEA-YA!
While we are on the subject of books
appropriate to this topic. I would add Heavy Weather Sailing by Adlard Coles and Peter Bruce. Does anyone have a title for damage control and jury rigging? Brian Toss ' rigging books and The Sail Makers Apprentice by Emiliano Marino are good additions to any sailing shelf in your library. Other please make additions.
appropriate to this topic. I would add Heavy Weather Sailing by Adlard Coles and Peter Bruce. Does anyone have a title for damage control and jury rigging? Brian Toss ' rigging books and The Sail Makers Apprentice by Emiliano Marino are good additions to any sailing shelf in your library. Other please make additions.
Pardey's 'Storm Tactics'
There are likely a few books written about storm tactics but I've got the one by Lin & Larry Pardey. They recommend heaving-to even in breaking seas and when it gets really bad or you really need to stop the downwind drift, to deploy a sea anchor. The heave-to position is different for boats but in the area of 50 degrees off the wind offering the angular corners of the house etc to the wind. The wind pushes the boat sideways dragging the keel through the slower moving water generating the 'slick'. The dragging sea anchor also helps make the slick. The main key is trimming the boat so it doesn't forereach out from behind the slick. If you are racing, have lots of helmsmen for relief, and are heading that direction anyway, sure, head downwind. But I'd rather already be hove-to when the wind and waves really go off rather than having to transition from hauling butt downwind to rounding up head-to-wind. If you are short handed the last thing you want is needing to actively steer for many hours in the darkness. I'll likely always be shorthanded cruising so this will be my tactic. I recommend the Pardey book. I don't have the credentials but they do. Cheers, HughR
There are likely a few books written about storm tactics but I've got the one by Lin & Larry Pardey. They recommend heaving-to even in breaking seas and when it gets really bad or you really need to stop the downwind drift, to deploy a sea anchor. The heave-to position is different for boats but in the area of 50 degrees off the wind offering the angular corners of the house etc to the wind. The wind pushes the boat sideways dragging the keel through the slower moving water generating the 'slick'. The dragging sea anchor also helps make the slick. The main key is trimming the boat so it doesn't forereach out from behind the slick. If you are racing, have lots of helmsmen for relief, and are heading that direction anyway, sure, head downwind. But I'd rather already be hove-to when the wind and waves really go off rather than having to transition from hauling butt downwind to rounding up head-to-wind. If you are short handed the last thing you want is needing to actively steer for many hours in the darkness. I'll likely always be shorthanded cruising so this will be my tactic. I recommend the Pardey book. I don't have the credentials but they do. Cheers, HughR
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