Keeping things cold
- Thread starter Jack
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Jack, remember that dry ice is frozen carbon
dioxide (CO2) and becomes a gas as it melts rather than a liquid such as common ice does. Be cautious about keeping it inside your cabin because you could become asphyxiated. Dry ice can keep frozen things frozen where common ice will not. I like to freeze or partially freeze liquids prior to packing so as to help extend the longevity of the ice. Don't try to freeze soda or beer.
dioxide (CO2) and becomes a gas as it melts rather than a liquid such as common ice does. Be cautious about keeping it inside your cabin because you could become asphyxiated. Dry ice can keep frozen things frozen where common ice will not. I like to freeze or partially freeze liquids prior to packing so as to help extend the longevity of the ice. Don't try to freeze soda or beer.
We made it 18 days on our ....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/MacgregorTrips-3-Powell09/Powell-2009-index.html
..Lake Powell trip getting ice just once, but it wasn't in 80+ degree temps. We used two 5 day coolers and one...
....wasn't much of a 5 day cooler, but had the option of opening only one side. The better...
...cooler just held ice and we would move it to the other when the first cooler's ice started to finally give out.
Now we have...
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/inside-22.html
... a frig on that boat and it is one of the best things we have bought for it and I made a frig/freezer for the Endeavour,
Sum
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]============================[/FONT]
Our Endeavour 37
Our MacGregor 26-S Pages
Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida
Mac-Venture Links
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/MacgregorTrips-3-Powell09/Powell-2009-index.html
..Lake Powell trip getting ice just once, but it wasn't in 80+ degree temps. We used two 5 day coolers and one...
....wasn't much of a 5 day cooler, but had the option of opening only one side. The better...
...cooler just held ice and we would move it to the other when the first cooler's ice started to finally give out.
Now we have...
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/inside-22.html
... a frig on that boat and it is one of the best things we have bought for it and I made a frig/freezer for the Endeavour,
Sum
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]============================[/FONT]
Our Endeavour 37
Our MacGregor 26-S Pages
Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida
Mac-Venture Links
Try "pre-cooling" the cooler before your trip by putting ice in for a few hours, then putting the items and the ice for your trip in. The Admiral also covers the food with a wet towel prior to closing the lid as extra insulation. She also freezes meats before we leave which seems to help keep the meat as well as keep the other items cool.
Block ice.. We get the ice that is made to go into snowball machines .. about the size and shape of a half gallon milk carton.. line the box with that .. Lasts a pretty long time.. The box in the H-34 is insulated pretty well. Sometimes we additionally carry a small box with frozen stuff and dry ice in. Good for 5-6 days.. Pre-chilling really helps..
Thank you for reminding me I have to start doing some of this stuff as we leave in nine days.
Make your own ice using a big tupperware(s) container in your freezer at home a week ahead of time. The ice you make in your own freezer lasts way better than the compressed snow crap you get at the store.
Vacuum-pack and freeze all meats and other freezable stuff ahead of time. I have not had good luck freezing liquids - the containers sometimes crack. But I do freeze at least one pre-cooked meal, like maybe ginger chicken from the local Thai place.
Pre-cool the ice box by throwing in a block (a sacrificial block from the store -- not your own special block!) a day ahead of time.
Put all the frozen stuff in the bottom of the ice box -- that is where it's coldest.
Put more insulation on top of everything. I use a double layer of foil-backed bubble wrap from the local home store with a padded blanket over it.
Be strategic about getting into and out of the ice box; avoid opening it as much as you can so cold doesn't escape. Maybe even have a second cooler for lunch/beverage stuff you'll need during the day.
If you are in Maine, work Dark Harbor Boatyard on Isleboro into your trip and get ice there. They make it in their own freezer in battery boxes and the stuff is bulletproof.
Your mileage may vary with all this. on our Pearson 30, following the above tips, the original homemade block would last well into the second week. On the Pearson 34, not so much I'm afraid, the ice box just doesn't stay as cold. I don't think there is as much of it right next to the hull and the cold water outside the hull!
Make your own ice using a big tupperware(s) container in your freezer at home a week ahead of time. The ice you make in your own freezer lasts way better than the compressed snow crap you get at the store.
Vacuum-pack and freeze all meats and other freezable stuff ahead of time. I have not had good luck freezing liquids - the containers sometimes crack. But I do freeze at least one pre-cooked meal, like maybe ginger chicken from the local Thai place.
Pre-cool the ice box by throwing in a block (a sacrificial block from the store -- not your own special block!) a day ahead of time.
Put all the frozen stuff in the bottom of the ice box -- that is where it's coldest.
Put more insulation on top of everything. I use a double layer of foil-backed bubble wrap from the local home store with a padded blanket over it.
Be strategic about getting into and out of the ice box; avoid opening it as much as you can so cold doesn't escape. Maybe even have a second cooler for lunch/beverage stuff you'll need during the day.
If you are in Maine, work Dark Harbor Boatyard on Isleboro into your trip and get ice there. They make it in their own freezer in battery boxes and the stuff is bulletproof.
Your mileage may vary with all this. on our Pearson 30, following the above tips, the original homemade block would last well into the second week. On the Pearson 34, not so much I'm afraid, the ice box just doesn't stay as cold. I don't think there is as much of it right next to the hull and the cold water outside the hull!
Pre chill the box.
Pre chill or freze foods and drinks going into the box.
Use a towell diped in the ice melt to cover from the top.
Keep the ice melt water in the box as long as possible - it isn't ice but it is still cold.
Pre chill or freze foods and drinks going into the box.
Use a towell diped in the ice melt to cover from the top.
Keep the ice melt water in the box as long as possible - it isn't ice but it is still cold.
Seriously sprinkling a generous amount of rock salt over the ice will lower the temperature and cause things to freeze. i do that all the time to keep the catch cold when offshore fishing, you just have to make sure that everything is sealed up or it gets kindof salty.
Fred Villiard
Fred Villiard
I freeze water in 3 liter beverage jugs and my box has 4 inch insuation. I keep the jugs in the box because even when 90% of the ice is melted I still have 3 kilograms of 34 degree water in the box keeping cold.If you use block ice and allow the melt water to drain away you are wasting cold and water.
Rock salt will lower the temperature at which ice melts producing a greater thermal gradient across the insulation and accellerating the rate of melting.
Rock salt will lower the temperature at which ice melts producing a greater thermal gradient across the insulation and accellerating the rate of melting.
We freeze 1 gallon water jugs and cover the inside of the cooler with bubble wrap. I try to avoid melted water in the cooler. Seems like since it is above freeing and has better coverage around odd shaped items it would accelerate melting. We drink/cook with the melted water in the jugs.
Heat transfer
One common misperception is what temperature the ice is to start with. Ice freezes (fresh water) at 32 degrees but that doesn't mean it can't be colder. Ice will be as cold as you want it, and the colder it is the better to start with. The ice you buy in stores is too warm and will melt too fast. Make your own ice as others suggest and make big blocks of it. Your freezer should be around zero degrees F, but as cold as your freezer will go will help. Do what others already suggested, freeze your foods where appropriate, cook them as they defrost. Precool the cooler you use. Never use your food cooler for drinks. Keep drinks in a separate cooler because it will be opened frequently. Next comes the "R" factor on your cooler. The more insulation the better. Remember, you are not trying to keep cold in, you are trying to keep heat out. Heat transfers from high potential energy (hot) in the direction of low potential (cold). so even if you are using a portable cooler, adding insulation to the outside will further help. We have been talking about this on the O'day forum and bubble wrap is a great way to add dead air space insulation to the outside of a cooler, a little duct tape and you're in business. If you buy ice cubes, buy them in advance and put them in your freezer, this will get them a lot colder than they are when you buy them. Make sure they have a few days to reach equilibrium. But large blocks that are very cold are way better. Dry ice is minus 105 degrees F (I think) very dangerous to handle as your cells in contact will freeze instantly. If your blocks are in containers you can use the melted ice for fresh cold water to drink as it melts. Using blocks I've been able to go up to 7 days on original ice.
One common misperception is what temperature the ice is to start with. Ice freezes (fresh water) at 32 degrees but that doesn't mean it can't be colder. Ice will be as cold as you want it, and the colder it is the better to start with. The ice you buy in stores is too warm and will melt too fast. Make your own ice as others suggest and make big blocks of it. Your freezer should be around zero degrees F, but as cold as your freezer will go will help. Do what others already suggested, freeze your foods where appropriate, cook them as they defrost. Precool the cooler you use. Never use your food cooler for drinks. Keep drinks in a separate cooler because it will be opened frequently. Next comes the "R" factor on your cooler. The more insulation the better. Remember, you are not trying to keep cold in, you are trying to keep heat out. Heat transfers from high potential energy (hot) in the direction of low potential (cold). so even if you are using a portable cooler, adding insulation to the outside will further help. We have been talking about this on the O'day forum and bubble wrap is a great way to add dead air space insulation to the outside of a cooler, a little duct tape and you're in business. If you buy ice cubes, buy them in advance and put them in your freezer, this will get them a lot colder than they are when you buy them. Make sure they have a few days to reach equilibrium. But large blocks that are very cold are way better. Dry ice is minus 105 degrees F (I think) very dangerous to handle as your cells in contact will freeze instantly. If your blocks are in containers you can use the melted ice for fresh cold water to drink as it melts. Using blocks I've been able to go up to 7 days on original ice.
We had a non-refrigerated ice box on our island packet for several years. We learned to save money on ice by making our own blocks. We took square sided 1/2 gallon juice bottles (cranberry juice bottles worked best for us and the plastic was thick enough to not crack during thaw and expanding). Round ones have a tendency to burst...the square ones have room to expand. I have several of these bottles filled with water and frozen solid. When the weekend comes we toss them into a pre-chilled good cooler and off we go. We used to either put the frozen bottles into the ice box or leave the stuff in the cooler and put into the quarter birth.
Fast forward to today where we have a new boat with a fridge. We still do the same exact thing but keep the cooler on the back deck to toss drinks and stuff the kids will use. This allows them to open and close the cooler as much as they want without having our compressor running constantly. Many times after the weekend is over - the cooler is still cool and has the blocks of ice just about melted. If it's a super hot weekend then we add a bag or two of ice.
That's about it. Ice cold beer and a BBQ sizzling with some sweet Italian sausage make a great time at anchor. Add some friends and family and that's how memories are made.
Fast forward to today where we have a new boat with a fridge. We still do the same exact thing but keep the cooler on the back deck to toss drinks and stuff the kids will use. This allows them to open and close the cooler as much as they want without having our compressor running constantly. Many times after the weekend is over - the cooler is still cool and has the blocks of ice just about melted. If it's a super hot weekend then we add a bag or two of ice.
That's about it. Ice cold beer and a BBQ sizzling with some sweet Italian sausage make a great time at anchor. Add some friends and family and that's how memories are made.
lol and all this time i thought it was to rust out the autosSeriously? Rock salt is the stuff we put on the roads up here to melt the ice.
we use it to freeze home made ice cream in a had turned ice cream churn and it works well ...if you like cold beer ....next time ice down the beer and put a little rock salt on top and Waite a little while.....get a cold beer and enjoy.....works every time......
regards
woody
woodster,
Not looking for a war but I am struggling with what you are suggesting here. It is impossible for the addition of room temperature salt to make ice colder assuming no other input to the system. If I am interpreting what you are saying correctly this is the equivalent of a perpetual motion machine and defies the laws of thermodynamics. for the ice to get colder you must transfer heat from the ice. You can do this two ways, the first is put the ice in an environment colder than the ice already is, the second requires inputting energy to the system to force the transfer of heat opposite the direction it will transfer naturally, this is what a refridgerator, freezer, or air conditioner accomplishes. Heat will always transfer from hot to cold unless you input energy. What your rock salt probably does is melt the ice allowing the beer, ice cream, etc. to be surrounded by ice cold liquid that will transfer heat from the warm object much faster than will the air that would otherwise be surrounding the object where ice is not in direct contact.
Not looking for a war but I am struggling with what you are suggesting here. It is impossible for the addition of room temperature salt to make ice colder assuming no other input to the system. If I am interpreting what you are saying correctly this is the equivalent of a perpetual motion machine and defies the laws of thermodynamics. for the ice to get colder you must transfer heat from the ice. You can do this two ways, the first is put the ice in an environment colder than the ice already is, the second requires inputting energy to the system to force the transfer of heat opposite the direction it will transfer naturally, this is what a refridgerator, freezer, or air conditioner accomplishes. Heat will always transfer from hot to cold unless you input energy. What your rock salt probably does is melt the ice allowing the beer, ice cream, etc. to be surrounded by ice cold liquid that will transfer heat from the warm object much faster than will the air that would otherwise be surrounding the object where ice is not in direct contact.
not looking for a war either .....and i don't have a scientific explanation for what i described in the use of it ......but i do know that it has worked the way i described.....if one went to the grocery store and looked for ice cream salt you could probably still fine it on the grocers shelf......
regards
woody
pure water freezes @32 degrees F. concentrated salt water freezes at 0 degrees F. When water changes from a liquid phase to a solid phase it gives up 140 BTU's per pound/ When water changes from a solid phase to a liquid phase it absorbs 140 BTU's Pure water melts and freezes @32 degrees and the salt water melts and freezes at 0 degrees F. This is called the latent heat of fusion. Once the water has frozen it requires 1 BTU per pound to reduce the temperature 1 degree F. The same as for liquid water.
Ask about the effect of condensate on melting ice.
Ask about the effect of condensate on melting ice.
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