Keeping an Oday 222 in the mud

[Freeblowing]

Hello,
I'm looking at shallow draft boats to put into a slip that goes down to 1'9" (or less) at low tide, because of cost.
I have some questions about keeping an Oday 222 in the mud at low tide.
Do any of you guys do that? Would I be able to go inside the boat at low tide without damaging the hull? I guess it might tip over!
Except for getting debris in the centerboard trunk, will there be any moving parts that might wear out or corrode prematurely? Is the keel lead?
Would I be better off getting something with a fixed keel like a Compac?
At least for next season, I'll still have my Mariner 19 close by so I'll be able to sail at low tides.
So, would keeping an Oday 222 or maybe an Oday 23 in the mud be a good idea? LOL....
Your comments are appreciated.

 

[jdratlif]

What is the normal draw on the 22?

 

[Ed Schenck]

The keel stub is at 1'8" or so I read. Theoretically nothing should touch bottom. But I don't think I would want the opening of the centerboard trunk sitting in mud.

 

[Joe11688]

I don't think it's such a good idea. The mud is going to get caught in the centerboard slot and prohibit the use of the centerboard. Then it's going to wear your bottom paint off your keel and may damage the stainless steel plates that help hold the centerboard in place. There are four 1/4" bolts and two wood screws in those plates.
Another thing that needs to be taken into consideration is the tip up rudder blade. You would want to rig up a pendant line to keep it in the up position during Low Tides, which is no big thing. I rigged one up for my rudder blade years ago and use it when I anchor in shallow water.
I don't want to appear to talk you out of a 23 or an O'Day 222. They're both great boats and can out perform a stubby keel boat, but if I had to choose between a shallow slip and a mooring, I would pick the mooring, provided that I could use a live dock to load up gear and guests. Maybe I'm just prejudiced of slips. Most of them are noisy and you sometimes feel compelled to try and keep up with the Jones's after a while and lose all conscious of why you loved that little boat when you first got it. There are good slips that are easy to get in and out of, and then there are tough slips where the wind and current can make docking any sailboat downright scary. Now you take a mooring for instance; They are easy to sail off of and pick up under sail depending on the area and how congested it is. You can paddle out to your boat in a pram or a kayak. I use a 9' kayak with a 15'X 1/4" braid line tied to the bow and I'm able to get on or off my boat very easy with the dog. There's an easy knack to it. When I sail off, I tow the kayak with me everywhere I go.
If you decide to go this route, just make sure ahead of time that the slip owner will provide you live docking for loading. If he doesn't, I would try to find a yacht club in that area and join it.
Our yacht club membership is about $ 500 a year which includes a mooring ($135) 29 moorings, 110' or more of live dock space, a great ramp, a club house with everything including a large ice machine with free ice cubes for everyone. Marinas and boatyards are OK, but you can't beat a club if it's a good club.

 

[jdratlif]

I think this is just going to come down to a judgment call. Depending on the bottom of your marina I'm not sure how exact the measurement 1'9" can be, there's probably going to be some sort of inconsistency. Also, depending on the bottom it might be harder then just mud. All I can think of is if it is only mud and at worst you sink 2 inches your only going to dirty the bottom part of your shoal keel faster and wear the bottom paint faster. If it is rocky then you can damage the very bottom of the boat. I don't think you will clog the centerboard because most of the material will wash out as you move out of the mud.

 

[Freeblowing]

Thanks for your opinions.
I used a mooring in Keyport, NJ (Raritan Bay) for a season. It wasn't too bad, but I was also using a heavier boat back then.
The motor boat chop in the Middle River seems to be a lot crazier than what I experienced on the Raritan Bay.
I haven't seen moorings on the Middle River, but I'll have to look around some more.
I'll continue to get beat up in my little Oday Mariner until I find the right next boat/slip/mooring combination.
Although I'm partial to Odays, I might also start looking at Com-Pacs and park one in the mud. It looks soft....

 

[Joe11688]

The Compact is a nice little boat Lee but it's important to think outside of the box when it comes to choices. I think it's more important to get the boat that you want than to let a mooring or slip dictate the choice. Today with the economy in the shape that it is, money is tight and a lot of guys are getting rid of large boats and buying smaller trailerable boats that they can keep in their yard and just use them when they please. With that said, I just read an article in this month's "Small Craft Advisor" magazine about a guy who bought a Compact Sun Cat and he loves it. The set up time on this boat is faster and easier than most small sloops including my O'Day 222 and your Mariner. The boom with the sail attached folds down with the mast and it's just a matter of minutes to raise this rig. Myself,--I love a small boat. The O'Day 222 is all I'll ever need and I've sailed her just about everywhere. I've owned three new sailboats in my lifetime and this one is the third and the last one for me. I'm like you in a lot of ways. I don't like sailing in waters that are being churned up on weekends by everybody's brother and uncle. Fortunately for me, I'm retired now and I can sail on weekdays and not have to put up with the circus that takes place out on the water during weekends. Occasionally I get out on my boat on a weekend and people are surprised to see me down at the club on my boat, but after coming back from my favorite cove on the river after bobbing around at the hook and being bounced around by wakes, I say to myself, "What the heck am I doing down here today?" "I must be a sucker for punishment!" Good luck with your decision Lee.
Joe

 

[Freeblowing]

Thanks for your comments Trinkka,

Except for the motorboat wake, my Mariner does fine on the Middle River out to the Bay. I actually like sailing the upper part of the river when boat traffic is heavy. I'd have to be careful about taking a bigger boat in those areas. It was my second season there and I'm starting to like that part of the Chesapeake Bay more. When football seasons starts, and the Ravens are playing, the Middle River gets nice and calm!
The Oday Mariner is a very versatile boat. I don't intend on selling it, but I am still considering my options for a second sailboat.
I sailed a friends Oday 222 and really liked how fast it came about. Based on what others have said, I won't try to keep an Oday 23 in 1'9"
of water, but I can probably make the Oday 222 work in that slip.
I'll look for the thread about the 222 rudder lift set up.
I raised a similar question about keeping a wing keel in the mud in the Hunter forum. I guess if you only have one boat to sail you wouldn't want to do that...
Thanks again...
Cheers>

 

[Joe11688]

Thanks for your comments Trinkka,

Except for the motorboat wake, my Mariner does fine on the Middle River out to the Bay. I actually like sailing the upper part of the river when boat traffic is heavy. I'd have to be careful about taking a bigger boat in those areas. It was my second season there and I'm starting to like that part of the Chesapeake Bay more. When football seasons starts, and the Ravens are playing, the Middle River gets nice and calm!
The Oday Mariner is a very versatile boat. I don't intend on selling it, but I am still considering my options for a second sailboat.
I sailed a friends Oday 222 and really liked how fast it came about. Based on what others have said, I won't try to keep an Oday 23 in 1'9"
of water, but I can probably make the Oday 222 work in that slip.
I'll look for the thread about the 222 rudder lift set up.
I raised a similar question about keeping a wing keel in the mud in the Hunter forum. I guess if you only have one boat to sail you wouldn't want to do that...
Thanks again...
Cheers>

The O'Day 222 is a fast boat and it can be sailed with just the Mainsail when the winds pick up. The rudder blades can be a problem. They have a tendency to break. You can rig up a rudder blade hold-up pendant line with some 1/4" braid, a fair lead on top of the rudder head, and a self rescue clam cleat on the top of the tiller as I have done. Just seal the inside edge of the hole in the blade with epoxy to keep the water out of it. The blade is pumped with foam. Always make sure that the blade is all the way down when you sail the boat. Here are a few pics of my modifiied rudder and tiller.

 

[Freeblowing]

Trinkka, thanks for the photos!
It shouldn't be too hard to rig something like that up, and since the rudder is part foam, it should be easy to lift up by hand. The chances of breaking that rudder are not too great when there's more mud and fewer rocks.
You guys up North have a lot more rocks to contend with.

 

[Joe11688]

Trinkka, thanks for the photos!
It shouldn't be too hard to rig something like that up, and since the rudder is part foam, it should be easy to lift up by hand. The chances of breaking that rudder are not too great when there's more mud and fewer rocks.
You guys up North have a lot more rocks to contend with.

Lee,
When I said that the rudder blades on O'Days break easy it has nothing to do with rocks or mud. The O'Day factory had Foss Mfg Co. in Clearwater Fl. build most of their rudder blades for them back then and the blades were molded in two halves, glued together and pumped with foam. There is a seam around the outside edge of these blades that will open up after a while and cause the blade to break in half. I had two factory blades break on me since I've owned my boat new, and we're not talking just O'Day 222 blades. They made the spade rudder blades for the larger O'Day boats in the same way.
Two years ago, a guy in Russia was seeking advice on this forum about broken spade rudder on his O'Day 32.
It has been my contention that if you try to sail the 222 with the blade not fully down, a lot of weather helm is created on the tiller which will cause the board to flex and crack. Eventually, it will break in half. A friend of mine in Ohio broke his blade several years ago on Lake Erie and ordered a solid blade off Rudy at D&R Marine like I did many years ago.
http://www.drmarine.com/
Right now, a lady in Nevada is trying to fix the rudder blade on her O'Day 222. I think that it's possible to repair them if you know how, or take it to someone who does this type of repair for a living.
The O'Days are great boats but some have their issues like the rudders. The O'Day 23s built before 1974 had cast iron keels that rusted up and caused the fiberglass centerboards to get stuck in the keel slot. They're still nice boats if you can meet the challenge of fixing and correcting these problems. Check out my Owner's Photo Album by clicking on the name "Trinkka" and "Trinkka's Mods."
Joe

 

[Sunbird22358]

What is the normal draw on the 22?

Draft for the 22 was 1'11" for the 1973-78 models, 1'3" for the 1979-83 models.
The 1979-83 models will have a 4'3" draft with the CB down, the 1'3" is CB up. Unfortunately..... the rudder was fixed so these are not minimum depth for sailing, only for floating. I guess you'd have to plan on not leaving the mooring at lower tides. No problem keeping the boat on a shallow mooring, just need to remove the rudder when not using boat. This is a good idea even on a deep mooring, I have found that all of our boats have hung to the mooring much better without the rudder and it saves having to paint the rudder every year. Also, the rudder will not be strained as hard, saving wear and tear on the pintles and gudgeons as well. Not sure I'd do that on a 272, although a neighbor of ours does!

For added info:
23 (1971-74) 2' cb up, 5'5" cb down

23 (1977-85) 2'3" cb up, 5'4" cb down

222 (1984-89, 1990-?) 1'8" CB up, 4'8" cb down

These are from the O'DAY specs, may vary due to added weight in boat (people/gear).

 

[Freeblowing]

This is a Com-Pac 19 at very low tide...A great photo I'd like to share.
While that guy is waiting for the water level to rise, I'd push my Oday Mariner into deeper water and off I'd go!

I am now wondering if any of the older full keel Oday's can be kept that way without tipping over?

Happy New Year!

 

[Sunbird22358]

I've never heard of any "full-keel" O'DAYs. Maybe because O'DAY never built any?
I think you mean shoal-keel, like the O'DAY 22? Or are you meaning the Keel/Centerboard models?
Either way..... I would expect that they might stand up like that ComPac under IDEAL conditions..... but, DON'T LET ANYONE SNEEZE! <GRIN!>
Even for that ComPac, it would have to be absolutely FLAT calm, no wind, no waves, very firm bottom (yet soft enough for the keel to sink slightly into the bottom?), and no one moving on board. I wouldn't want to count on them standing like that too often. O'DAY built boats properly, but even so no boat is really designed to sit supported only by her keel on dry land, well except maybe one of those twin-keel boats sold in areas of Europe where harbors often drain completely at low tide.

 

[Freeblowing]

I just looked at some pictures of Oday Dolfins and Oday Outlaws. They have what I call a full keel, but I wouldn't want to park either of them in the mud. Those old Odays are beautiful, but I don't want to pay the price for one of those deeper slips.
There's an Oday 23 in one those shallow slips (1'9") that I mentioned. That model Oday is on my list of possible next sailboats.
I'm doing fine with the Mariner right for now, just getting beat up on the busy motorboat days... I can't say enough good things about how well Mariners sail...
Happy New Year!
Cheers>

 

[Sunbird22358]

OOPS!
I stand corrected! Your memory for O'DAYs is better than mine!
Although, not many who post here are aware of those truly "OLD" O'DAYs and so I often assume people are refering to the mid-1970s models. Heck, even my 1979 DS II could be considered "OLD", but not by me. <GRIN!>

I usually include the Dolphin and the OUTLAW as the only Full-Keel O'DAYs (and waffle a bit, since the DOLPHIN has a centerboard housed in the keel, yet I would still call that boat a full-keel design). The Dolphin would be OK to beach against a pier I guess, but I'd be carefull about doing so since mud or such could be forced up into the CB slot and one would need to be carefull about the rudder, She wouldn't stand up on her own like that ComPac 19, unless the tide had gone out VERY slow, there was NO wind or Current.....and no one was aboard..... or if aboard, no one SNEEZED or even BREATHED <GRIN!>.

Thank you for sincerely correcting my brain freeze! I also like hearing your praise for the MARINER, since a MARINER is on my short list of "dreamboats" to replace my DS II "someday".