I am purchasing a new 46 and considering ordering the lead keel rather than the standard iron keel. What experiences have others had with the standared iron keel?
keel
- Thread starter tom miller
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iron is in general a more solid keel. You can hit ground in very slow speed without keel bending and no damages. (the boat will be more "longkeeled". From old days lead keeled boats were long keeled boats .. bavaria is not and closer to the opposite and lead keel is too week for cruising with touches etc. and will easily give extra cost/safety problems. lead keel gives slightly better sailing performance why not the new cyclades from beneteau if you look for much value for money.. so much more roomy compared to money. if you like a very nice boat. The new (2006) Beneteau 50 is my favorite in the range.
My ballast is lead
but it is inside the fiberglass of the keel. I have heard other expound the vertues of a lead keel as being able to absorb impacts better than Iron. Here in the Chesapeake the bottom is mostly soft( rocky in the upper reaches of some of the rivers) so Inside or outside ballast isn't a serious consideration. Lead won't rust but it will gouge. Iron won't gouge but it will rust. Lead is quite a bit more dense than Iron, but I am sure the designers have taken that into consideration. So there is my two cents worth.
but it is inside the fiberglass of the keel. I have heard other expound the vertues of a lead keel as being able to absorb impacts better than Iron. Here in the Chesapeake the bottom is mostly soft( rocky in the upper reaches of some of the rivers) so Inside or outside ballast isn't a serious consideration. Lead won't rust but it will gouge. Iron won't gouge but it will rust. Lead is quite a bit more dense than Iron, but I am sure the designers have taken that into consideration. So there is my two cents worth.
Iron Keels
I'm not sure what the price differential might be to order lead vs iron, or if it would be worth it. I have a 1986 Hunter with an iron keel. It has been easy to maintain (sanded and treated it with POR-15 and then bottom painted it) and I've had no rust. If the price were the same, I'd order lead. If lead was "significantly" more than iron, I'd save the money and buy other performance enhancing features with it.
I'm not sure what the price differential might be to order lead vs iron, or if it would be worth it. I have a 1986 Hunter with an iron keel. It has been easy to maintain (sanded and treated it with POR-15 and then bottom painted it) and I've had no rust. If the price were the same, I'd order lead. If lead was "significantly" more than iron, I'd save the money and buy other performance enhancing features with it.
Iron Keel
Our former boat, a Hunter 37.5, had an iron keel. If they are not properly prepared by teh factory (sand blasted, epoxy coated, etc.) they will rust. Bottom paint is not sufficient. The resulting rough surface will have affect boat speed, pointing etc. ONce teh rusting has begun it is very costly and difficult to get under control.
Our former boat, a Hunter 37.5, had an iron keel. If they are not properly prepared by teh factory (sand blasted, epoxy coated, etc.) they will rust. Bottom paint is not sufficient. The resulting rough surface will have affect boat speed, pointing etc. ONce teh rusting has begun it is very costly and difficult to get under control.
With all due respect, I disagree...
Sorry Thosen, I do not mean any disrespect and have no idea where you got your info from, mine mostly comes from recent articles in YACHT magazine on the "perfect form: hull, keel and rudder - what makes a yacht go faster and safer", Volume 1 / 2006. They discuss lead vs. iron: lead being the softer material absorbs energy and therefore can handle impact better. Higher density of lead (11.1 vs. 7.3) makes at equal stability for 20 % less wetted area, i.e. less friction meaning all else being equal the lead keel is faster. Your statement that an iron keel performs betteris just plain wrong as primarily keel-design determines performance, not the material. The Bavaria lead-keels are (as I recall) usually shoal-keels, so you will get more height out of the iron keel but merely because of the keel-design, not the material. Whether those 2 or 3 degrees are crucial for a cruiser... The advantages on rust have already been discussed earlier. Your recommendation on a Cyclades..., read some tests as I do not wish to comment on that; it's like comparing Chevy and Buick.
Sorry Thosen, I do not mean any disrespect and have no idea where you got your info from, mine mostly comes from recent articles in YACHT magazine on the "perfect form: hull, keel and rudder - what makes a yacht go faster and safer", Volume 1 / 2006. They discuss lead vs. iron: lead being the softer material absorbs energy and therefore can handle impact better. Higher density of lead (11.1 vs. 7.3) makes at equal stability for 20 % less wetted area, i.e. less friction meaning all else being equal the lead keel is faster. Your statement that an iron keel performs betteris just plain wrong as primarily keel-design determines performance, not the material. The Bavaria lead-keels are (as I recall) usually shoal-keels, so you will get more height out of the iron keel but merely because of the keel-design, not the material. Whether those 2 or 3 degrees are crucial for a cruiser... The advantages on rust have already been discussed earlier. Your recommendation on a Cyclades..., read some tests as I do not wish to comment on that; it's like comparing Chevy and Buick.
Bavaria uses both Lead and Iron
Bavaria uses Lead for their deep draft keels (standard keels) and cast iron for their (optional) shoal draft keels.
Bavaria uses Lead for their deep draft keels (standard keels) and cast iron for their (optional) shoal draft keels.
lead vs iron
So many think the same as you but its wrong. Lead keel is a a deeper keel on Bavaria. Its very narrow compared to iron (for better sailing) and the hook up to the boat is small/narrow. (it will break easy) Iron is more solid. (both the hook up and the keel itself). With iron the boat will last, with lead I "promise" that the keel will break as soon as you touch.
So many think the same as you but its wrong. Lead keel is a a deeper keel on Bavaria. Its very narrow compared to iron (for better sailing) and the hook up to the boat is small/narrow. (it will break easy) Iron is more solid. (both the hook up and the keel itself). With iron the boat will last, with lead I "promise" that the keel will break as soon as you touch.
I don't think you should care what the material is. It is the shape that matters. On a Bavaria the deep draft keel is more efficient hence better performing. I think that because it has such a thin profile that they use lead to get the desired weight. The shoal draft keel is much thicker hence the cheaper iron does the job and is therefor used. Under water, thinner is always better but if you sail a lot in shallow water you might need the shoal draft design.
Not convinced...
but please, do: "With iron the boat will last, with lead I "promise" that the keel will break as soon as you touch." I did... touch and it did not...break. I stand by my statement: my keel is the shallow keel (which retrospecitvely I wish I had not ordered) and is lead (which I am glad I did). As indicated before: Thosen, I would like to have your sources as this directly has possible bearings on my ship. What Bavaria makes today...? Well I do not know, but one thing is for certain: my 2002 keel is shallow AND lead. Another thing on shallow vs. deep is the forces that work on the hull in the event of an impact; it goes up exponentially, see the issue of a Match 42 that "lost" her keel in Croatia and the tragedy that followed.
but please, do: "With iron the boat will last, with lead I "promise" that the keel will break as soon as you touch." I did... touch and it did not...break. I stand by my statement: my keel is the shallow keel (which retrospecitvely I wish I had not ordered) and is lead (which I am glad I did). As indicated before: Thosen, I would like to have your sources as this directly has possible bearings on my ship. What Bavaria makes today...? Well I do not know, but one thing is for certain: my 2002 keel is shallow AND lead. Another thing on shallow vs. deep is the forces that work on the hull in the event of an impact; it goes up exponentially, see the issue of a Match 42 that "lost" her keel in Croatia and the tragedy that followed.
Lead keel pictures
I have pictures of the keel of, I think a Bavaria 44, With a lead keel that hit a reef at full crusing speed. The damage to the keel was a huge dent and the damage to the keel hull joint was slight. My guess is that the lead keel absorbed much of the impact without severe damage to the boat overall. If somebody could explain how to post them I will. If not I would be glad to send them via Email if anybody wants to see them. I have the lead fin keel on my 50 and I am glad we went that way. Jim
I have pictures of the keel of, I think a Bavaria 44, With a lead keel that hit a reef at full crusing speed. The damage to the keel was a huge dent and the damage to the keel hull joint was slight. My guess is that the lead keel absorbed much of the impact without severe damage to the boat overall. If somebody could explain how to post them I will. If not I would be glad to send them via Email if anybody wants to see them. I have the lead fin keel on my 50 and I am glad we went that way. Jim
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