Keel-stepped mast vibration - bangs cabintop

Feb 20, 2011
8,062
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
True, I need to evaluate the rig tensions. It's been a long time… like, I've never done it. Last time it was done was 6 years ago when the boat was launched after a prolonged refit. I guess I'd better learn how. <g>

If a good fit at the partners stops/subdues the pumping without changing the rig tensions does that mean it's OK? Or is it just covering up a problem? I'm guessing that pumping is a resonance that amplifies the force of the wind. Sort of like Galloping Gerde. If so, should the tension of the rig be reduced to set the resonance at a lower wind speed/lower force or raised to increase the resonance to a level not obtainable?

Hmmm. That sounds esoteric. Probably the right path is to get out there and try a few different tuning scenarios and see what works?

Geoff
Yah, esoteric. But I think that's just fine. Taking the time to note all the variables specific to your boat, and asking folks who knows about Pearsons, besides me, is all good.

Chris Patterson may have the solution with harmonics, so, make music.

Quiet, extreme low frequency music.
 
Oct 17, 2011
2,809
Ericson 29 Southport..
Hehe. Maybe you can tune the shrouds for Chopin.

But that is so odd I would like to see/witness it. It really has my interest, aero's and hydro's do that. I would have to spend some time with it with a Loos gauge to see IF it could be adjusted, but that is so odd I'm intrigued.

(And being familiar with the wedges, preachers, tabernacles, etc, it seems to me if the mast were undulating that the wedges would just transfer the load or harmonic to the cabin, which may not be all bad, you could get some bass out of it).
 
Nov 9, 2008
115
Pearson 323 Bayfield
Well, if I could get Chopin to write a piece with one note…

I think I'd find a song with one note a bit of a non-song.

Brion Toss in his book "The Complete Rigger's Apprentice" says to tune the shrouds to a "…low musical note." He states when it's definitely a note and not just a vibration your tension is about 10% of breaking load, about where you want the lowers. As I read his section on tuning (page 272) I think I see my problem. Mine was tuned when the shrouds were new and has not been touched since. Ergo; my shrouds are not tight enough. I guess, come spring, I'll have to either trust my tone deaf hearing or get a loos gauge.

Geoff
 
Feb 20, 2011
8,062
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
Well, if I could get Chopin to write a piece with one note…

I think I'd find a song with one note a bit of a non-song.
Check out John Cage's Silent Sonata. :D


Brion Toss in his book "The Complete Rigger's Apprentice" says to tune the shrouds to a "…low musical note." He states when it's definitely a note and not just a vibration your tension is about 10% of breaking load, about where you want the lowers. As I read his section on tuning (page 272) I think I see my problem. Mine was tuned when the shrouds were new and has not been touched since. Ergo; my shrouds are not tight enough. I guess, come spring, I'll have to either trust my tone deaf hearing or get a loos gauge.

Geoff
Spring's aways off, but please let us know what your efforts turn up. Good luck!
 
Oct 17, 2011
2,809
Ericson 29 Southport..
I was talking to the chief guru rigger yesterday about lowers. (Anybody named Lars just SOUNDS like a rigging guy). Anyway, he is good, but when the lowers are loose, and they will get that way after a long shakedown, to turn the buckles a half turn tight and see. If not, another half turn. He stressed that every lower turnbuckle be turned down the same, especially if it was professionally tuned. Barring that is some wierdness that has just made ALL the rigging haywire. (Lars didn't say haywire)..
 
Nov 9, 2008
115
Pearson 323 Bayfield
Had to look up John Cage. He really did write a silent sonata. I wonder who the soloist was…

I'll get back in June after I've tried my tuning skills. Although the shrouds should be slack, I don't see it on the leeward side close to the wind. Perhaps not too far out of tune.

I have a loos gauge on my list, will try Chris' approach first. Then too Toss' approach and if no good will try and find a pro. Not sure if there is one in our area but the sailmaker I use may do that sort of thing.

Back in early summer.

Geoff
 

NYSail

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Jan 6, 2006
3,156
Beneteau 423 Mt. Sinai, NY
My mast is perfectly tuned and i have wedges..... My mast will pump at anchor or slip (depending on wind direction). Isomast.
 
Feb 20, 2011
8,062
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
Had to look up John Cage. He really did write a silent sonata. I wonder who the soloist was…
Likely the composer.
It's minimalist music like Philip Glass', times 2356. I...I don't even know what that is! :D
 
Nov 9, 2008
115
Pearson 323 Bayfield
Stu, I'll try it next spring.

Very interesting explanation. From that discussion I assume the pumping could lead to mast failure. e.g. We put lots of holes in our mast to mount various things. If a few of them lined up along a stress line induced by the force on the mast they could be the start of a failure?

Geoff
 
Oct 17, 2011
2,809
Ericson 29 Southport..
Any physical component that is dynamic is more prone to failure. Force factors. Push on a tightly closed door. Now lean toward it as you flex outwards with your arms and the door opens freely. Force factors compound loading. Compounded loading often exceeds ratings outside of manufacturers limits.

(My classical collection is equaled by my heavy metal. My mother that was a concert pianist taught me the music. Ozzy taught me to love it. Pink Floyd, AC/DC, Queen, musicians. It doesn't have to be Scagmeat Johnson and the Needle Freaks to be metal)..

(I surmise lowers could be tuned with an electronic guitar tuner, as the tones should be the same with no wind and the boat idle).
 
Oct 17, 2011
2,809
Ericson 29 Southport..
Oh yeah. I looked briefly at that link, and it's the first name I've ever seen attached. And it may have said it in the article, but the mast is a wing. Even if it were perfectly round, other forces are at work, as the angle of approach, and the departure angles set up vortices which are contrary to forward sailing. So the cross section of most masts ARE a wing, just not designed for flight as there is no Bernoulli effect due to equal length surfaces on both sides. Works great if you are sailing straight forward directly into the wind. Huh? Everything physical is a compromise. The air flow at rest must be disrupted somehow. Short of welding flaps onto the mast, the halyard wrapping idea is probably the least painless.

I've heard a million halyards slapping in the marina, but have never seen this firsthand, however heard of it. I would sure love to spend some time on a boat that did it. Maybe not try to spend the night on it, but these things enthuse me greatly.