I'm poking around on my new boat doing repairs, cleaning and other stuff. I've been under the boat working on the keel. For the most part, it's in pretty good shape I think. I'm just looking for opinions on how to deal with the rusty spots? See http://home.comcast.net/~tegwilym/keel/ for photos. I've been tapping off the rusty stuff with a screwdriver in an effort to get rid of some of the bad spots. The leading edge and the bottom of the keel had it the worst, but it comes off easily. Obviously, I can't reach the training edge since the boat is on the trailer. There was one big blister in the paint that I scraped off and found a big rusty spot underneath that was still wet. (in the photo). The boat has been at a Marina for a few years in the water, but it was fresh water. Now that I bought it, the boat will be parked in my backyard when it's not sailing, so I think the rust should be minimal from now one (or so I'm thinking). What is the best thing I can do now? Should I sand down the rusty spots and spray on some of that anti-rust paint on the keel? For that deep blister, could it be filled with something, sanded down and then painted over? I would like to try working on what I can under the trailer, I just don't want to take this monster off the boat. That sounds like a nightmare! (at least get a few seasons out of it before I have to do that). Thanks, Tom
Keel rust on Catalina 22?
- Thread starter tegwilym
- Start date
- Status
Rust
Hello, When I had a C22 (back in 2003) my keel had a few rust spots. I used a wire brush (in a drill) to get all the rust off. I painted on a 'rust remover' stuff that I bought from Home Depot, then painted with a marine bottom paint designed for steel. I have heard you can fill low spots with auto body putty, but I don't know for sure, Good luck, Barry
Hello, When I had a C22 (back in 2003) my keel had a few rust spots. I used a wire brush (in a drill) to get all the rust off. I painted on a 'rust remover' stuff that I bought from Home Depot, then painted with a marine bottom paint designed for steel. I have heard you can fill low spots with auto body putty, but I don't know for sure, Good luck, Barry
rust
Thanks Barry, I'm kind of thinking the same thing. Sand off the crud, then paint some anti-rust stuff on it. I'm wondering if normal "Rustoleum" type paint would be ok or do I need some fancy marine stuff? The boat will be stored out of water, so water on the keel will be minimal most of the time. If I can just treat what I can reach from under the trailer I think that might be ok to start with. I don't think the rust is too severe compared with other boat keels I've seen. Mostly just along the edges with a few spots in the middle, overall it's in pretty good shape I think.
Thanks Barry, I'm kind of thinking the same thing. Sand off the crud, then paint some anti-rust stuff on it. I'm wondering if normal "Rustoleum" type paint would be ok or do I need some fancy marine stuff? The boat will be stored out of water, so water on the keel will be minimal most of the time. If I can just treat what I can reach from under the trailer I think that might be ok to start with. I don't think the rust is too severe compared with other boat keels I've seen. Mostly just along the edges with a few spots in the middle, overall it's in pretty good shape I think.
There are many direct to metal paints on
the market today and you don't need to be a yachtsman to find them. Go to the paint manufacturers stores, not the big box home stores and tell them what you need. They know more about paint than most of the "experts" that write books about painting boats.
the market today and you don't need to be a yachtsman to find them. Go to the paint manufacturers stores, not the big box home stores and tell them what you need. They know more about paint than most of the "experts" that write books about painting boats.
Iron Keel
There are many chemicals and products that will provide temporary solutions and I think I have tried them all. I previously owned a C22 and a Hunter 34 both had iron keels. The best solution is to sand blast the keel and coat it with epoxy within one hour. Sanding and grinding doesn't remove all the rust. Petit makes a product call Rustlok which stops rust for a few years in fresh water.
There are many chemicals and products that will provide temporary solutions and I think I have tried them all. I previously owned a C22 and a Hunter 34 both had iron keels. The best solution is to sand blast the keel and coat it with epoxy within one hour. Sanding and grinding doesn't remove all the rust. Petit makes a product call Rustlok which stops rust for a few years in fresh water.
sandblasting....etc
Most of my keel is pretty good other than the edges and a few other spots. Is it possible to just paint the exposed part of the keel that is accessible from the trailer? I won't get the back edge (tucked in) but I just don't want to drop the keel out just yet if I don't have to.
Most of my keel is pretty good other than the edges and a few other spots. Is it possible to just paint the exposed part of the keel that is accessible from the trailer? I won't get the back edge (tucked in) but I just don't want to drop the keel out just yet if I don't have to.
wire brushing with a drill or grinder works well
if its just spots. really bad, then sand blast. auto paint supply stores have a phosphoric acid type solution that can then be brushed on. it changes the chemical makeup of the iron oxide to something else and then makes it resistant to further oxidation. don't know what it changes it to, I'm not a chemist or metallurgist. But it does work. s/v Que Pasa?
if its just spots. really bad, then sand blast. auto paint supply stores have a phosphoric acid type solution that can then be brushed on. it changes the chemical makeup of the iron oxide to something else and then makes it resistant to further oxidation. don't know what it changes it to, I'm not a chemist or metallurgist. But it does work. s/v Que Pasa?
Lived 25 years with iron keel
My Cheoy Lee Clipper had an iron keel and what I found works best is to sand or wire brush the rust off and then coat it with west epoxy. This is about the only thing that will seal it well enough to last in the marine environment. You can bottom paint right over the west epoxy once it is good and dry. If you have to fill a void you can mix the west epoxy with a high strength filler and sand it nice and smooth. You can also coat the rust with a product called oxyflow. This forms a chemical reaction with the rust which neutralizes the rust before you coat with the epoxy. You can get it at any paint store as it is used by farmers on rusty farm equipment.
My Cheoy Lee Clipper had an iron keel and what I found works best is to sand or wire brush the rust off and then coat it with west epoxy. This is about the only thing that will seal it well enough to last in the marine environment. You can bottom paint right over the west epoxy once it is good and dry. If you have to fill a void you can mix the west epoxy with a high strength filler and sand it nice and smooth. You can also coat the rust with a product called oxyflow. This forms a chemical reaction with the rust which neutralizes the rust before you coat with the epoxy. You can get it at any paint store as it is used by farmers on rusty farm equipment.
Epoxy resin will work better than
rustoleum paint, but either will work. Epoxy makes a better barrier between the copper bottom paint and the iron. The cleaner the better for good adhesion. Don't worry if your epoxy gets on the bottom paint a bit, as long as the bottom paint is well adhered. just paint over with fresh bottom paint. If it's out of the water mostly, you can touch it up as needed. If you drop the front of the trailer with the tongue jack, then block the stern (a metal barrel with plywood - small blocks under the outboard edges of the plywood to match the hull shape, carpet ovet that)and raise the front with the tongue jack, it will lift the stern off the trailer enough to drop the keel quite a bit. The front of the boat stays on the trailer bunks, so it's not going to fall over. I did this on my C22 for painting. Block the trailer wheels really well, and block the tongue after it's lifted.
rustoleum paint, but either will work. Epoxy makes a better barrier between the copper bottom paint and the iron. The cleaner the better for good adhesion. Don't worry if your epoxy gets on the bottom paint a bit, as long as the bottom paint is well adhered. just paint over with fresh bottom paint. If it's out of the water mostly, you can touch it up as needed. If you drop the front of the trailer with the tongue jack, then block the stern (a metal barrel with plywood - small blocks under the outboard edges of the plywood to match the hull shape, carpet ovet that)and raise the front with the tongue jack, it will lift the stern off the trailer enough to drop the keel quite a bit. The front of the boat stays on the trailer bunks, so it's not going to fall over. I did this on my C22 for painting. Block the trailer wheels really well, and block the tongue after it's lifted.
tipping trailer
Good idea. I've read this on other sites. I guess you could get to most of the keel doing this, but then just have the front hidden part that wouldn't get painted until the whole thing was removed.
Good idea. I've read this on other sites. I guess you could get to most of the keel doing this, but then just have the front hidden part that wouldn't get painted until the whole thing was removed.
Complete Job
Do the complete job. The photos look like you should. Catalina Direct has all the parts you will need and an excellent video to guide you thru what you'll have to do. I did it in my back yard. You can modify what and how you do it based on your trailer set up and confidence level you have. You have to make a sled to lower the keel onto, but you have to raise the boat off the bunks and move the whole keel out over the trailer cross members. Take the hinge blocks and pivot pin out and replace. Also the cable, tube and winch if needed should be replaces. Once out, I brought the keel to a local shop, had it sand blasted clean and coated with rust preventative (turned the metal black). once home again I coated with Interlux 2000 epoxy then fairing compound and kept sanding and filling until I got the proper keel shape as equal on both side as I could. Followed by more epoxy barrier coat and finally bottom paint. I also strippes the bottom, repaired some minor blisters, applied barrier coat and bottom paint, added the Catalina direct pads for the "clunk" and re-installed the keel. It sounds like a lot of work but with a lot of research and questions you can do it. At least you'll get to know the real condition of your boats hull and keel. Be prepared to pay if you have a boatyard do it. they'll get it done quicker but probably not much better if you resarch it and above all be careful, after all the keel weighs 550# and the boat a lot more.(took me all fall and part of the spring) Good luck in whatever you do.
Do the complete job. The photos look like you should. Catalina Direct has all the parts you will need and an excellent video to guide you thru what you'll have to do. I did it in my back yard. You can modify what and how you do it based on your trailer set up and confidence level you have. You have to make a sled to lower the keel onto, but you have to raise the boat off the bunks and move the whole keel out over the trailer cross members. Take the hinge blocks and pivot pin out and replace. Also the cable, tube and winch if needed should be replaces. Once out, I brought the keel to a local shop, had it sand blasted clean and coated with rust preventative (turned the metal black). once home again I coated with Interlux 2000 epoxy then fairing compound and kept sanding and filling until I got the proper keel shape as equal on both side as I could. Followed by more epoxy barrier coat and finally bottom paint. I also strippes the bottom, repaired some minor blisters, applied barrier coat and bottom paint, added the Catalina direct pads for the "clunk" and re-installed the keel. It sounds like a lot of work but with a lot of research and questions you can do it. At least you'll get to know the real condition of your boats hull and keel. Be prepared to pay if you have a boatyard do it. they'll get it done quicker but probably not much better if you resarch it and above all be careful, after all the keel weighs 550# and the boat a lot more.(took me all fall and part of the spring) Good luck in whatever you do.
Epoxy
I used West system Epoxy on mine. My procedure: Clean off rust. Coat with rust preventative. (I used a brand by a co. called Permatex) Then coat keel with West System Epoxy. I also used some fiberglass fabric reinforcement around the edges. It helps to smooth things but don't leave bubbles between the keel and the fiberglass. One can also use fillers but I wasn't out for speed. They say for speed that the leading edge of the keel best benefits from being smooth. A few coats of Epoxy is good making sure that any holes in the keel are filled and that there aren't any bubbles in the Epoxy where the water can reach the iron. Probably the more epoxy the better but you don't want too much around the pivot pin. That would make the keel too wide to fit between the hangers when remounting it to the hull. Use the the threaded rod trick that's been displayed on the internet to lower the front of keel some. -4 rods to replace the bolts works well as long as you don't drop the keel to far with them and you keep the 2 pivot hangers close in. After a season in the water, I only had a few small pin holes of surface rust that I can fix pretty easily.
I used West system Epoxy on mine. My procedure: Clean off rust. Coat with rust preventative. (I used a brand by a co. called Permatex) Then coat keel with West System Epoxy. I also used some fiberglass fabric reinforcement around the edges. It helps to smooth things but don't leave bubbles between the keel and the fiberglass. One can also use fillers but I wasn't out for speed. They say for speed that the leading edge of the keel best benefits from being smooth. A few coats of Epoxy is good making sure that any holes in the keel are filled and that there aren't any bubbles in the Epoxy where the water can reach the iron. Probably the more epoxy the better but you don't want too much around the pivot pin. That would make the keel too wide to fit between the hangers when remounting it to the hull. Use the the threaded rod trick that's been displayed on the internet to lower the front of keel some. -4 rods to replace the bolts works well as long as you don't drop the keel to far with them and you keep the 2 pivot hangers close in. After a season in the water, I only had a few small pin holes of surface rust that I can fix pretty easily.
The part of the keel that's up in the hull
won't get much growth, because there's very little light up there. Unless the pin is loose,and the keel thumps around in the trunk a lot, I wouldn't drop it and do a bunch of work. Go sailing! Work some other time.
won't get much growth, because there's very little light up there. Unless the pin is loose,and the keel thumps around in the trunk a lot, I wouldn't drop it and do a bunch of work. Go sailing! Work some other time.
Better to be safe
Actually, I would say that it's better to be safe than sorry. I'd check the keel for wear if it's a recent purchase and then again after a time to see if there's any additional wear as the new owner uses the boat. People have lost their keels because either the bolts give way, the keel pin wears through or the keel itself wears through. The hole in the keel for the pin is close to the top of the keel when it's up and the casting process can leave voids in the iron casting. I don't mean to scare anyone. A few other things to check is: 1) The keel cable and that system. My turning ball in the volcano was not turning and it just about sawed through the cable at the up position. 2)Check the keel locking bolt to see if it functions or leaks. Decide if you wish to use it or not and when. 3)The shrouds and the bulkheads. Leaks in the through-degk chainplate for the upper shrouds can easily leak and rot the bulkheads. 4)Also the deck integrity around the fittings. 5) The rudder integrity. It's plywood inside the fiberglass. Any leaks will swell the plywood and crack the fiberglass. 6)All screws and bolts for tightness. They can work loose on the water.
Actually, I would say that it's better to be safe than sorry. I'd check the keel for wear if it's a recent purchase and then again after a time to see if there's any additional wear as the new owner uses the boat. People have lost their keels because either the bolts give way, the keel pin wears through or the keel itself wears through. The hole in the keel for the pin is close to the top of the keel when it's up and the casting process can leave voids in the iron casting. I don't mean to scare anyone. A few other things to check is: 1) The keel cable and that system. My turning ball in the volcano was not turning and it just about sawed through the cable at the up position. 2)Check the keel locking bolt to see if it functions or leaks. Decide if you wish to use it or not and when. 3)The shrouds and the bulkheads. Leaks in the through-degk chainplate for the upper shrouds can easily leak and rot the bulkheads. 4)Also the deck integrity around the fittings. 5) The rudder integrity. It's plywood inside the fiberglass. Any leaks will swell the plywood and crack the fiberglass. 6)All screws and bolts for tightness. They can work loose on the water.
Keel
I've done some work on the keel, but not sure if I'm doing this right. I figure if I screw it up with trying stuff, I'll just fix it.
I found some "instant epoxy putty" stuff at the boat shop today. Tear off a chunk, mush it around until it's gray, then smear it into the parts that need it. I should be able to sand it smooth, but haven't done that yet. I did scrape it down with a wire brush on my drill before smearing the putty in. Now I read that I should have treated the surface before doing this? Well, I figure that if I just get the rust off a bit (there really wasn't a whole lot and most of the paint/primer is still there other than some pitting) I could spray it down with Rustoleum. The boat WILL be out of the water most of the time, unless sailing, and I can easily keep an eye on things down there and fix as needed. I'm probably doing things totally backwards, but I guess I learn from mistakes - so I'm probably a genius now! ;-) Tom
I've done some work on the keel, but not sure if I'm doing this right. I figure if I screw it up with trying stuff, I'll just fix it.
I found some "instant epoxy putty" stuff at the boat shop today. Tear off a chunk, mush it around until it's gray, then smear it into the parts that need it. I should be able to sand it smooth, but haven't done that yet. I did scrape it down with a wire brush on my drill before smearing the putty in. Now I read that I should have treated the surface before doing this? Well, I figure that if I just get the rust off a bit (there really wasn't a whole lot and most of the paint/primer is still there other than some pitting) I could spray it down with Rustoleum. The boat WILL be out of the water most of the time, unless sailing, and I can easily keep an eye on things down there and fix as needed. I'm probably doing things totally backwards, but I guess I learn from mistakes - so I'm probably a genius now! ;-) Tom- Status