Keel repairs

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Edlk

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Apr 3, 2010
25
MacGreggor 25 Newoprt RI
I have several checks dings and cracks in the surface metal of the the keel on my 1982 M25
What is the best method and materials to fill and resurface the keel.
 

Doug J

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May 2, 2005
1,192
Hunter 26 Oceanside, CA
Post some pics! It's hard to give advise without seeing what you're dealing with.
 

walt

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Jun 1, 2007
3,535
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
Just curious if there is experience with the Mar Glass in a Marine application??

I cringe when I see advice given to use this as I think is an polyester based filler ( like Bondo) which works OK to repair a car fender but the keel???

I would personally would use something based on epoxy with glass filler.
 

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
Just curious if there is experience with the Mar Glass in a Marine application??

I cringe when I see advice given to use this as I think is an polyester based filler ( like Bondo) which works OK to repair a car fender but the keel???

I would personally would use something based on epoxy with glass filler.
Sorry I made you "cringe" Walt, but there is a big difference between bondo and marglass. Bondo uses talc as a filler that absorbs water and you are right you don't want to use that.

Marglass is a polyester filler but unlike bondo is reinforced with short-strand fiberglass to create waterproof repairs that are twice the strength of ordinary body fillers. It won't absorb water and you don't use it to repair a car fender unless it is a deep dent that you don't or can't hammer out and the thickness would exceed bondos thickness limitations.

If you weld in a patch panel while doing body work chances are you will end up with pin holes in the weld seam. Then water comes in from the back side of the panel and through the pin holes and if you have bondo is absorbed and creates rust between the metal and the bondo and under that paint resulting in eventually a rust bubble under the paint.

So if you weld in the patch panel you use the marglass first on top of your weld seam to waterproof it and keep the water away from the bondo on top of it and under the paint.

Here is a little longer product description:

# Mar-Glass® is a fiberglass-reinforced filler that features high strength and superb adhesion. # Contains short strands of fiberglass and is ideal for use with fiberglass cloth when filling rust-outs, damaged fiberglass, deep dents, and small holes. # Waterproof formula may be applied up to 3/4" thick.

Mar-Glass® can be used alone or in conjunction with fiberglass tape, cloth or mat to repair and rebuild rusted-out metal or damaged fiberglass materials.
I would have no qualms about using it on the keel repair, but of course as usual that is my opinion and I'm not forcing it upon anyone. Just threw it out there,

Sum
 

walt

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Jun 1, 2007
3,535
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
Sumner, thanks.

It probably is good stuff - I was just wondering about any marine underwater experience and I take it that there isn't any. If I were planning on using it for a underwater marine application, I would want to know this.

Also thanks for verifying that it is Polyester based as I had not checked. Polyester resins have there place but they just don't make as good of bonds as epoxy and are not as water proof. But its one of those things were you would not find out the difference between for example a polyester and epoxy fix until five years - maybe sooner if the boat was kept in a slip. I would still use an epoxy based fix especially given the hassle of doing the project in the first place.
 
Jun 3, 2004
1,863
Macgregor 25 So. Cal.
I'm real old so when I get around to mine I'm using lead and maybe add a 30 or 40 pounds to the very bottom in a bulb while I'm at it.
 

Edlk

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Apr 3, 2010
25
MacGreggor 25 Newoprt RI
Attached are some photos of my Keel
As you can see I have the boat off the trailer and plan to lower the keel down to remove it.
I plan on getting it sand blasted and doing the rehab work the rest of the way my self. Advise on proper fairing materials and coatings would be great
Ed
 

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Edlk

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Apr 3, 2010
25
MacGreggor 25 Newoprt RI
I plan on taking the keel down so I will be sure to make sure I have a new bolt and everthing is tight when it goes back in.
The question I need most answered is once this is sandblasted down. What is the best product for fairing and coating.
 
Jun 3, 2004
1,863
Macgregor 25 So. Cal.
# Mar-Glass® is a fiberglass-reinforced filler that features high strength and superb adhesion. # Contains short strands of fiberglass and is ideal for use with fiberglass cloth when filling rust-outs, damaged fiberglass, deep dents, and small holes. # Waterproof formula may be applied up to 3/4" thick.

Mar-Glass® can be used alone or in conjunction with fiberglass tape, cloth or mat to repair and rebuild rusted-out metal or damaged fiberglass materials.
 

walt

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Jun 1, 2007
3,535
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
Bob Macellan (I think this is his name or is at least close to this) used to post here and had done a major overhaul of his 25 keel. He even had a bunch of pictures on one of the photo pages. I can never figure out how to use the search on this web site (some reason I cant limit to just the Mac forum :redface: )- but if you can find his description, I think it would be worth the effort.
 
May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
# Mar-Glass® is a fiberglass-reinforced filler that features high strength and superb adhesion. # Contains short strands of fiberglass and is ideal for use with fiberglass cloth when filling rust-outs, damaged fiberglass, deep dents, and small holes. # Waterproof formula may be applied up to 3/4" thick.

Mar-Glass® can be used alone or in conjunction with fiberglass tape, cloth or mat to repair and rebuild rusted-out metal or damaged fiberglass materials.

^most likely polyester resin... good but not as good as epoxy resin. (IMHO). kittyhair (evercoat) sound like same product:
http://www.google.com/products?hl=e...esult_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBkQrQQwAA


Walt, I also have terrible luck searching archives!

I think the trick is searching in the 'archives' section, but its still hit or miss, even when I'm searching for my old posts... I often can not find them...
 
Oct 16, 2008
512
MacGregor/Venture 25 Mesa AZ
The keel pictures you were referring to are located at the "SAILINGAZ" account on photobucket.com. I painted the keel with POR15 rust converter, then filled with an epoxy/glass strand filler, the more POR15.
 

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
kittyhair (evercoat) sounds like same product..
It is basically the same as the marglass, their equivalent and I've used it also, just prefer the marglass. I think it sands and shapes a little better.

The two products are waterproof, not water resistant, very important. I think we have to remember that to do a proper repair regardless of if you used one of these or the epoxy based fillers that you use these to fill and shape the surface. They are not structural components of the repair. If you need strength you are going to have to use glass also.

The process doesn't end there and you don't just put a bottom paint over them. You need to put a good epoxy barrier coat over them and that will further waterproof what you are doing and is needed as when you sand the fillers down you will still get back to metal at high points and you need to keep the moisture away from the metal and a bottom paint won't do that.

I apply an epoxy primer on all the metal work I do. I'll put two coats on our trailer, hopefully soon, when I finish up with this second axle deal. Then I'm using a good urethane paint over that.

Bondo got such a terrible name since a lot more guys use to work on their cars themselves and would bondo an area and then paint it with rattle can primer and drive it sometimes for months like that. The primer wasn't waterproof and the bondo with its talc filler soaked up water like a sponge. The water went through the bondo to the bare metal under it and started rusting. After the rust built up and broke down the bond the bondo popped off and everyone though it was junk. If they would of used a good 2 part epoxy primer over the bondo nothing would of happened.

About this keel, seeing the shape it is in I wouldn't feel safe with it unless I could find a place that could possibly magnaflux it for hidden cracks. If a machine shop could do that it wouldn't probably be expensive and you would feel a lot better about going out with it and putting money into it.

Then I would do as you said and have it media blasted. Then build the area back up with the filler of your choice as long as it is waterproof. Shape it with 36-40 grit using a long board sander. When it is to the right shape sand the 36-40 scratches out with 80 grit.

Then if I wanted to do a really nice job I would get a 2 part high build primer that is also waterproof and spray about 2-3 heavy coats of that on. Block sand it with 180 or 220 dry paper. Repeat if there are low spots. I would use a guide coat of paint for all of the steps including the shaping of the filler. You will instantly see low spots using it. It is cheap and comes in spray cans.

Once you have sanded with the 180/220 for a boat I would probably stop there and move to the epoxy barrier paint and then in the right application window put on the bottom paint.

It sounds like a lot of steps, but it could be done in a day or two. The key to getting it done quick is to put on enough filler to bring the whole surface up past where you want it. Shape it with the 36 grit paper on a long board (a hand one, don't use an air one if you don't have experience) using the guide coat so you can see low spots. Work the filler just after it 'kicks' don't wait a couple days and let it get rock hard. Work on only one side at a time and then the front leading edge.

Then go sailing :),

Sum

Note: For autobody work after the 180 or 220 I'll spray on more high build primer and go to 400 or 600 wet before putting on an epoxy sealer and then the top coats.

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Last edited:

Edlk

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Apr 3, 2010
25
MacGreggor 25 Newoprt RI
Thanks
Sum
All good stuff .
I have a good idea about what to do hear.
I'll post some pics when I am done
Ed
 
Mar 9, 2009
84
Macgregor 26S New Port Richey, Fl
Keel repair and build up

Keep us posted with process and pictures. I just purchased a 78 V-25. Searching the archives these models have a keel trunk too wide for the keel producing side to side play and corresponding swing bolt hole wear. I too plan to pull it back out and build up the keel and bolt hole fill.
 
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