keel locking bolt

[craigw1997]

i have a 81 mac 22 and the first time out in deep water and full sail rig , I lowered the keel to only find out that my keel locking bolt has no back hole to insert through! is this normal? do i insert the bolt into the keel and not secure it through? I'm lost on this. I sail will my keel down against the keel bolt good day on the water no leaks and no kids just the wife and me, paridise.

 

[Timo42]

No hole in the hull or the liner? You are supposed to reach around from under the seat area. I put a 4" deckplate on either side of mine in the liner for access.

 

[Freedom77]

Sounds like maybe the hole wasn't drilled at the factory???

 

[caguy]

You may not have the holes lined up. On my boat I have to lower the keel all of the way down and then back it up until the winch clicks. I crank it up 8 more turns (your may vary) or until the holes line up. Then you can shove the bolt all of the way through. If you just let your keel down and try to put the bolt in it will bottom out on the keel itself and feel like a blind hole.
What does your bolt look like? It should be 3/8'' x about 3.5'' with two fender washers and two rubber washers and a wing nut.

 

[timebandit]

I am a bit confused. If you put the bolt through to allow the keel to rest on it does it just go half way through? The same bolt that you rest the keel on should be removed and the keel lowered untill that bolt goes through the the keel also.

i have a 81 mac 22 and the first time out in deep water and full sail rig , I lowered the keel to only find out that my keel locking bolt has no back hole to insert through! is this normal? do i insert the bolt into the keel and not secure it through? I'm lost on this. I sail will my keel down against the keel bolt good day on the water no leaks and no kids just the wife and me, paridise.

 

[nemosuit]

No hole in the hull or the liner? You are supposed to reach around from under the seat area. I put a 4" deckplate on either side of mine in the liner for access.

There is one hole on the starboard side of the interior tub, just below the mast strut. That's not for your keel locking bolt, but if you shine a flashlight down inside there, you'll see the hole the locking bolt comes through.

Like Timo said, you can reach in through the aperture in the forward starboard seat and put your hand on the locking bolt, or hole if that's all's there.

On my '78 M22, when I put a flashlight in there with the keel up, I can then look in through the factory-made hole on the port side of the tub and see light coming through. I'd think you should be able to do the same.

Looking at mine, I can see something bad happened in the past: on the port side, the once round hole in the keel trunk is ripped like a 6 rolled on its side. When I look in from the other side, the trunk is similarly torn, I see what's left of the bolt, and it looks bent. Clearly, I've got some surgery to do.

Like Timo, my plan is to cut an access port in the starboard side of the tub below the mast strut; and I'm going to enlarge the port side aperature, too. This will be necessary so I can get inside to repair and reinforce the keel trunk where the locking bolt goes through; and I figure it will also make installing / removing the locking bolt easier in the future, too.

Hope this helps.

Another thing: although my keel seems to move pretty freely, and the mounting bolt seems like a recent replacement; this damage to the locking bolt has convinced me to drop the keel and check it out.

My plan: Boat on blocks; keel not all the way up; angled slightly down with the aft end resting on a plywood reinforced wooden pallet supported by something that can lift, lower, and move 500 pounds. Build on some additional wood to support the forward end of the keel at it's present angle, and keep it from moving. Remove the hinge bolt, use the jacking device to lower the pallet-mounted-keel clear of the hull, and pull it out of the way.

Going back in it's the same thing in reverse.

I'll be doing it with a forklift, but I think a good floorjack would be able to do the same thing.

VBR,

Pat

 

[timebandit]

I am just wondering in what direction the damage is in when locking or not locking the keel in place.

The PO of my boat showed me some bent locking bolts that he bent sailing lakes.

The bolts were not bent from hitting things but from the 600# keel slaming back onto the resting bolt after clearing the object that bent the bolt.

My holes are fine and I always use the bolt to lock the keel but was wondering if crashing into something actually bent the bolt or just stoped it with little damage to the bolt.

I sometimes use my keel to make sure a certain sand bar is still there when returning to the dock under power at about 5 kts. with the keel locked and haven't bent a bolt or damaged the boat yet.

I usually have the keel raised to trailler by this time.

What's your story, and damage?

 

[Freedom77]

As I mentioned in a previous post. I live near Lake Mead NV. The U.S. Government didn't bother flattening out all the high spots in what was to become the lake when they built the Hoover Dam. Outcome, underwater mountains. I have run aground in soft mud at low speeds on numerous occasions with no real damage. However, I hit a large solid obstruction doing hull speed and bent the keel bolt into a horseshoe and damage the keel trunk. I now use a 1/2" oak dowel and seal it with plumbers putty. There has been some question as to the strength of the dowel. In 30 years I have never had a problem. On the other hand I have snapped it when encountering immovable objects. Fair winds...

 

[nemosuit]

This is interesting....

As you know, I haven't sailed my boat yet; and I don't know what damage the PO did to it in the past. That said...

(Correct me if I'm wrong, but) I believe the keel locking bolt goes through aligned holes in the keel trunk and the keel itself, no?

If that's true, then I'm wondering how the damage I'm seeing occurred.

I would think that, if the keel locking bolt were in place as described above; and the lowered keel struck some unmovable object while the boat was moving forward; then (if the impact was sufficient to overcome the locking bolt or its keel trunk mounting surfaces) the lower end of the keel would have pivoted aft on the mounting bolt; and the upper end of the keel would have been forced forward, overcoming the locking bolt.

If that's correct, then I would think the straight tear in the fiberglass trunk would be pointing forward, like the letter P rotated approximately 90 degrees clockwise when viewed from the Port side.

But instead, what I'm looking at when viewed from the Port side, is like the numeral 6 rotated about 120 degrees clockwise. In other words, the straight section where the bolt moved to rip the fiberglass trunk is pointing aft and down.

That's the opposite of what I'd expect from a sailing colision with the keel down. Makes me wonder how it happened.

Trying to visualize it, it sounds more like my damage was caused by the keel slamming back down, instead of being forced aft. Hmmmmm...

When I got the boat, it was sitting on a trailer with the keel up; but God only knows what happened before that. I do know the keel winch was gone, and the keel cable was nothing more than a torn loop still bolted to the keel. Maybe at some point in time the keel was up, the cable broke, and the keel fell hard enough to hit the locking bolt and rip the fiberglass trunk?

Don't think getting inside is going to tell me any more, either. Probably going to end up being one more Unsolved Mystery for Robert Stack.

You guys who have had impact damage where your keel trunk was deformed at the locking bolt hole: which direction did the deformity go: forward, or aft?

And if your damage was caused by the keel slamming back down against the locking bolt: same question, por favor.

VBR,

Pat

 

[caguy]

If it makes any sense, I have bent my locking bolt by forgetting to remove it before winching up the keel. A couple of years ago I grounded into a rock at Two Harbors doing about two knots with no damage to the bolt or the trunk. It sent me flying like a Newton's Law demonstration.

 

[Timo42]

Mine had a slot worn both directions, mostly forward, when I get on the other computer, I will post some pics of the damage and repair.

 

[Timo42]

Here's som pix of the keel bolt hole repair.

 

[caguy]

I've written about this before but I will repeat it because I think it is important. On my Mac 25 boat the keel trunk fiberglass is counter sunk to accommodate a large fender washer and rubber seals. When tightened the lateral load is distributed over the large leading edge of the washers. This will prevent the bolt from slicing through the fiberglass. If the bolt is put in place without locking it down it will easily cut through the fiberglass since there is very little to support it.
Here is a diagram of what I am talking about and a picture of the actual bolt.

 

[Timo42]

I embedded ss fender washers in the glass and epoxy patch, which is twice as thick as the original hull, I also put epoxy on the washer in the picture of the bolt with the wire that I fed from the outside to back up the hole for patching. Haven't crawled under yet to see if they are still there, they were mostly used to hold the filler in place, but I figured that if they stuck, they would tighten up the keel a bit. I can take a couple of shots of the finished job this weekend after it cools off a bit.

 

[caguy]

Sounds indestructible, lets ground it full speed ahead on the Long Beach break water and test your theory.

 

[Timo42]

Sounds indestructible, lets ground it full speed ahead on the Long Beach break water and test your theory.

You first

 

[nemosuit]

Here's som pix of the keel bolt hole repair.

Yup. Think I'll be doing my repair like that. IMOHO, the SS fender washers epoxy-glassed to the keel trunk can only make that area as strong as it probably should have been from the start. Cheap insurance against future failure is always within my budget.

Thanks for the info, Timo and Group.

VBR,

Pat

 

[timebandit]

Is it just me that sees that if the OP is sailing with the keel aginst the bolt and now can't find the the other side to insert the bolt that something is amiss.

i have a 81 mac 22 and the first time out in deep water and full sail rig , I lowered the keel to only find out that my keel locking bolt has no back hole to insert through! is this normal? do i insert the bolt into the keel and not secure it through? I'm lost on this. I sail will my keel down against the keel bolt good day on the water no leaks and no kids just the wife and me, paridise.

 

[flynfol]

Remember to bring a punch and hammer to get the bent bolt out if you do hit bottom. It doens't take much of a hit to bend that bolt just enough that it won't come out without persuasion(particularly if you have a tight fit after the trunk repair). Unless you have an alternate means of retracting the keel. It has happened to me more than once

 

[flynfol]

to lock or not to lock.......

.....the age old question. Here on the great lakes.........I always lock. Big waves make big damage to the trunk when that keel swings fore and aft(that nitwitted powerboater screaming by you out of the harbor entrance). Skinny water? depends on the sea state. The couple times I've grounded in the North Channel, waves were choppy, wind was high(ie: keel locked) uncharted, low water level, BIG rocks.......youch.....where did I stow that damn punch?