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Keel issue

4 play

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Jan 25, 2020
6
C&C 30 mk1 Lorain
I am looking at a 1972 C&C 30 MK1 and it seems the casting line on the lead keel looks like it is separating has anybody else seen this? is it something to worry about? is it fixable?
 

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Jan 1, 2006
5,349
Slickcraft 26 Greenport, NY
Don't panic. But there's an issue. It's been gooped to death. My concern is that there may have been a hard grounding. So you need to look at other places in the boat. Particularly the tabbing through out the cabin. And look at the aft end of the keel on the hull and see if there is damage (Or repair) to the hull there. Many times with a hard grounding the aft part of the keel is driven up and damages the hull. It's fixable but at your expense and you may not pass the insurance survey. Another concern is that the gap between the stub and the keel is uneven. If it were an even gap it would maybe just need resealing. Uneven gap poses question.
 
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Likes: jssailem
Oct 22, 2014
13,873
CAL 35 Cruiser moored EVERETT WA
Agree with @shemandr about grounding as possible cause. More inspection is needed.

Step back and look at overall shape and symmetry of the hull and keel. This should give you indication as to places to explore on the hull interior for damage.

Driving a boat hard against a rock or sand bar will pull the forward section of the keel down away from the hull and force the aft section of the keel up and into the hull. If bolt on keel damage could be evident in the bilge. Water intrusion would be bad.

Note this damage could also be from mishandling in the yard when the boat was being moved or blocked for winter storage.
 

4 play

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Jan 25, 2020
6
C&C 30 mk1 Lorain
After doing a bit more research I found this is a common problem of the C&Cs it's called the C&C smile. The rubber like tape they used to seal the keel to the hull breaks down over time, the upper portion of the crack seems to follow that line but not the lower part of it so it may have been run aground. I will have to look at it more closely when I go back of ant evidence of this.
 
Jul 7, 2004
7,297
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
That doesn't look like where a keel "smile" typically shows up. Be carefull.
 
Jul 7, 2004
7,297
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
You might want to check for info here


mighty low, but I guess that is C&Cs version of a smile.
Thanks!
 

4 play

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Jan 25, 2020
6
C&C 30 mk1 Lorain
Well I was finally able to get inside the boat and inspect the tabbing and hull structure and I can see no evidence of damage. The keel does have a couple of spots that look as though it my have come into contact with something. I did find that the steel plates under the keel nuts are rusty so I am having stainless ones made so I can retorque the nuts, the crack is the smile so many have talked about. Unfortunately the gentleman that owned the boat passed away before I was able to speak with him so there are a few mysteries but I did buy it from the family for a very good price
 
Jan 10, 2018
189
Beneteau 331 Halifax
Man, as a PO of a C&C 30 (and a C&C 32) you'll need a gorilla to undo those nuts. Can we get a picture of the "smile"?
 

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Jan 25, 2020
6
C&C 30 mk1 Lorain
Well that was part of the problem, I took the one nut off one handed, that's how lose they where. Here is a pic before I ground out the joint.
 

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Jan 10, 2018
189
Beneteau 331 Halifax
If you go to the C&Cphotoalbum.com that is the place for C&C owners. In the technical info section, there is a file with all the keel bolt torque specs. You will have to ask if you can just tighten them when on the hard....there may be a special technique. You should put in one reef when you get to a little over 15 knots, and she'll sail very well.
 

4 play

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Jan 25, 2020
6
C&C 30 mk1 Lorain
I have been on that website quite a bit lately, the first step is to replace the steel washers that are under the nuts, once those are replaced then you can retorque the bolts I believe they are 350 ft lbs, then fair out the area with G-flex epoxy. Here is a pic with it ground out I still have to remove the compound between the keel and hull.
 

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DArcy

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Feb 11, 2017
935
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
Yup, that's the C&C smile. I had a 1974 C&C 27 for 20 years and I am familiar with it. If you could remove the nut by hand it was REALLY under torqued and I'm sure that contributed to the crack you are seeing but even with proper torque it will still happen. I torqued my keel bolts every spring after launch and still the smile came back. G-flex seems to be the popular repair material. Peel out as much of the previous repair material as you can, fill with G-flex. Since you are removing and replacing the nuts you will need to torque them on land but check them again after launch. I'm not sure if you should apply full torque on land or not.
Another issue that can contribute to loosening the keel bolts is the swept back keel C&C went with in the early boats. It looks fast but isn't really that fast. Unfortunately it can cause uneven loading on the bolts if you put too much load on the keel. You really should use a cradle that properly supports the hull and doesn't put the hull weight on the keel. The idea is to only have the keel support itself, which can be hard to do using jack stands. If not evenly loaded, the swept back keel can try to pry the keel away forward and put a lot of compression load on the aft end of the keel. The good news is the hulls were really overbuilt at the keel stump and can take a lot of abuse.
 

dmax

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Jul 29, 2018
269
O'Day 35 Buzzards Bay
"once those are replaced then you can retorque the bolts I believe they are 350 ft lbs, "
That sounds like a lot, I'm not sure you could even generate that much torque with a very long lever. My keel bolts are 3/4" diameter - I torque them to 110 ft. lbs, which is plenty hard to do given the postions you need to be in. The torque spec for keel bolts is relative to the bolt diameter - you should double-check what the factory recommendation is for a c&c 30.
 

4 play

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Jan 25, 2020
6
C&C 30 mk1 Lorain
350 ft lbs would be nearly impossible by hand that's why you use a torque multiplier, the one I have is 4:1 drive so set the torque wrench at 87.5 ft lbs and torque away.
 

dmax

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Jul 29, 2018
269
O'Day 35 Buzzards Bay
As far as I know, 110 ft lbs. is the factory recommendation for my boat. It is also the factory recommendation for Catalinas in the 30+ foot range.