I've read lots of postings from the archives about how to refinish a rusty iron keel, and have gathered most of the materials now to do my H23 keel (RustX, epoxy barrier coat, anti-fouling). Just one last thing is holding me up: exactly what kind of grinder or sander will be the easiest, from among the choices which are readily available to me. I just visited the local rental center, and the Home Depot. The rental center only carries right-angle grinders with heavy, cut-off-cone shaped grinding stones. Both the rental clerk and I thought this would take off too much metal, too quickly. It really isn't designed to produce a smooth surface. The only sand-blaster they carry is a huge one which requires a huge trailerable compressor. Home Depot (just to get an idea of what's available) carries a variety of small right-angle grinders. But again, the grinding wheels they take look to be totally inflexible. They might be what I need, but I was thinking more along the lines of a flexible wheel with sand-paper attached. I basically saw lots of sand-paper discs at H-D, but virtually none of the wheels they would attach to. So this leaves the following 1) just pay a yard to sand-blast it for me (yeah, this is easiest in a sense, but I need to schedule it and trailer the boat there, etc., which might not be so bad, come to think of it...) 2) rent a belt sander 3) buy/rent a small grinder with a hard wheel 4) track down and rent a small sand-blaster with compressor. 5) use really coarse sand paper on my cheap, small palm sander. I already have this, but I sense it would take a year to do, and would wear out the sander. 6) hand sand. I don't think so. Please give me the benefit of what worked for you! I'm hot to get this boat finished and in the water. Thanks.
- Status
grinding keel
I used a black and decker right angle 7inch disc sander, with various pads, also a flap wheel, I used some other wheels to grind that were attached to a drill but , seemed to me I made the best progress with the coarse pads, I took the whole keel down , later wished I would have just done the rusty areas, if it aint broke dont fix it, but thats up to u, the whole thing turned out great with the exception of one small area that rusted again it is about the size of a 50 cent piece, it was one of the original problem areas, I used evey solvent and lots of rags to get clean , so get those areas super clean or all of your work will be in vain , good luck , fair winds Mike Bacome
I used a black and decker right angle 7inch disc sander, with various pads, also a flap wheel, I used some other wheels to grind that were attached to a drill but , seemed to me I made the best progress with the coarse pads, I took the whole keel down , later wished I would have just done the rusty areas, if it aint broke dont fix it, but thats up to u, the whole thing turned out great with the exception of one small area that rusted again it is about the size of a 50 cent piece, it was one of the original problem areas, I used evey solvent and lots of rags to get clean , so get those areas super clean or all of your work will be in vain , good luck , fair winds Mike Bacome
Sand Blasting is Superior
Sand blasting the iron keel is a superior surface prep method, but you need to get the first coat of primer on post haste. I found the yard quite reasonable on the sand blasting. I found some holes in the keel casting that needed to be filled with filled epoxy after the primer coat. You cannot put on too many coats of primer. I put on five before the bottom paint.
Sand blasting the iron keel is a superior surface prep method, but you need to get the first coat of primer on post haste. I found the yard quite reasonable on the sand blasting. I found some holes in the keel casting that needed to be filled with filled epoxy after the primer coat. You cannot put on too many coats of primer. I put on five before the bottom paint.
Some Professional advice!
Jay: Here is some professional advice from the mfg. http://us.yachtpaint.com/usa/boat_painting_guide/bpg2001/boaters_guides/pages/p23_24.htm Like Frank mentioned, sandblasting is best.
Jay: Here is some professional advice from the mfg. http://us.yachtpaint.com/usa/boat_painting_guide/bpg2001/boaters_guides/pages/p23_24.htm Like Frank mentioned, sandblasting is best.
Iron Keel
Do yourself a favor and do as Frank & Steve have suggested! It'll take a very long time to do it with the sander, and you'll go through lots of belts (or discs). Believe me, as I speak from experience (I tried it...I lasted a little over 2 hours)! Additionally, since you have to lift the boat up anyway to get at the keel bottom, just spend a few bucks and have the blaster guy do it! Blasting will get ALL the rust out in very short order. Since you must paint within a very short time after the metal has been cleaned, make sure you have everything ready to go so you can start IMMEDIATELY after the keel has been stripped. Check out the link that Steve has provided. Follow their instructions to the letter, and it'll be a long time before you have to deal with this again. Enjoy! Jim Maroldo s/v: Lil' Wass Ett
Do yourself a favor and do as Frank & Steve have suggested! It'll take a very long time to do it with the sander, and you'll go through lots of belts (or discs). Believe me, as I speak from experience (I tried it...I lasted a little over 2 hours)! Additionally, since you have to lift the boat up anyway to get at the keel bottom, just spend a few bucks and have the blaster guy do it! Blasting will get ALL the rust out in very short order. Since you must paint within a very short time after the metal has been cleaned, make sure you have everything ready to go so you can start IMMEDIATELY after the keel has been stripped. Check out the link that Steve has provided. Follow their instructions to the letter, and it'll be a long time before you have to deal with this again. Enjoy! Jim Maroldo s/v: Lil' Wass Ett
Wire wheel
I used a wire wheel to get it down, it went very fast. If you want to you can then sand to get a better finish but give yourself time to go at priming right away. Sand blasting is fine but no one would tell me that the rust wouldn't come back, one guy admitted that he had seen it come back on several boats. I feel that it's something you need to plan for each haul, working on problem areas on each haul. In the end, hopefully it'll go away, or I hit the Lotto so I can get a lead keel made for me. Really the time and expence is not much more if planned right. Good luck, and remember it's 1/3 of the fun.
I used a wire wheel to get it down, it went very fast. If you want to you can then sand to get a better finish but give yourself time to go at priming right away. Sand blasting is fine but no one would tell me that the rust wouldn't come back, one guy admitted that he had seen it come back on several boats. I feel that it's something you need to plan for each haul, working on problem areas on each haul. In the end, hopefully it'll go away, or I hit the Lotto so I can get a lead keel made for me. Really the time and expence is not much more if planned right. Good luck, and remember it's 1/3 of the fun.
Ken, it is never goin' away!
Ken: The rust produced by the iron keel is NEVER going away for ever. This is why they continously paint the bridges along the coast. These guys don't have iron submerged in seawater to contend with and they still have to blast, prime and repaint every couple of years. What you will end up with is several years of a maintenance free surface if done properly and not scratched or banged. Once you open the surface you are back to the same problem again.
Ken: The rust produced by the iron keel is NEVER going away for ever. This is why they continously paint the bridges along the coast. These guys don't have iron submerged in seawater to contend with and they still have to blast, prime and repaint every couple of years. What you will end up with is several years of a maintenance free surface if done properly and not scratched or banged. Once you open the surface you are back to the same problem again.
And that's why I wonder what the big deal
is... Iron rusts. You can coat the hell the hell out of it and it will rust. Is it really anything more than a cosmetic problem? Is the drag that much higher? What is going to fail? (Asks Tom, who just bought a boat with an iron keel...)
is... Iron rusts. You can coat the hell the hell out of it and it will rust. Is it really anything more than a cosmetic problem? Is the drag that much higher? What is going to fail? (Asks Tom, who just bought a boat with an iron keel...)
Attachments
Thanks...
Well, I was going to wait a while before drawing a conclusion, and now I'm glad I did. So it looks like: 1 person sanded 1 person used a wire wheel 3 advocate sand blasting 1 advocates letting it rust 1 doesn't say Not terribly clear, but I appreciate your input anyway! I guess I'll look into the sand blasting, but I already have a) a grinding wheel for the end of a drill, which looks kind of like melted plastic mesh with grit embedded in it b) a wire wheel for a drill which I bought before I realized what a big job this is. Maybe a plan of action is to go ahead and try the stuff I already have, and if it quickly looks hopeless, then call up the sandblaster. Yesterday (influenced by the 3 early posts which were strongly in favor of blasting), I called several marinas. One in particular said "we could do it for you, but we'd just be calling this guy and charging you extra for cleanup and profit". They gave me the number of the person, who they said was quite hard-working and reliable. On the other hand, they guessed that it might be $200 or more. For a 2-3 hour job (just guessing), that would be quite a good labor rate, and a bit more than I had in mind. Responding to the idea that a lead keel is better than iron: I have to say that I sure wouldn't look forward to sanding down, or working with in any way, a huge chunk of lead. Both for my sake, and for the sake of the pollution it would generate. After all: if you have a yard sand-blast your lead keel for you, you're still responsible for the pollution which runs off into the bay (or wherever). Frankly, I'm new to sailing, and I'm not very comfortable with the pollution generated even by the anti-fouling paint. I read somewhere about some copper-flake impregnated epoxies which are supposed to be environmentally friendly. But it's not gonna happen this year. Anyway, thanks again for your input. I'll let you know how it goes. Jay
Well, I was going to wait a while before drawing a conclusion, and now I'm glad I did. So it looks like: 1 person sanded 1 person used a wire wheel 3 advocate sand blasting 1 advocates letting it rust 1 doesn't say Not terribly clear, but I appreciate your input anyway! I guess I'll look into the sand blasting, but I already have a) a grinding wheel for the end of a drill, which looks kind of like melted plastic mesh with grit embedded in it b) a wire wheel for a drill which I bought before I realized what a big job this is. Maybe a plan of action is to go ahead and try the stuff I already have, and if it quickly looks hopeless, then call up the sandblaster. Yesterday (influenced by the 3 early posts which were strongly in favor of blasting), I called several marinas. One in particular said "we could do it for you, but we'd just be calling this guy and charging you extra for cleanup and profit". They gave me the number of the person, who they said was quite hard-working and reliable. On the other hand, they guessed that it might be $200 or more. For a 2-3 hour job (just guessing), that would be quite a good labor rate, and a bit more than I had in mind. Responding to the idea that a lead keel is better than iron: I have to say that I sure wouldn't look forward to sanding down, or working with in any way, a huge chunk of lead. Both for my sake, and for the sake of the pollution it would generate. After all: if you have a yard sand-blast your lead keel for you, you're still responsible for the pollution which runs off into the bay (or wherever). Frankly, I'm new to sailing, and I'm not very comfortable with the pollution generated even by the anti-fouling paint. I read somewhere about some copper-flake impregnated epoxies which are supposed to be environmentally friendly. But it's not gonna happen this year. Anyway, thanks again for your input. I'll let you know how it goes. Jay
An aside to Tom Boles
Nice photo, Tom! Just out of curiosity, what's the deal with the rudder? A new design or grass beards?
Nice photo, Tom! Just out of curiosity, what's the deal with the rudder? A new design or grass beards?
use the grinder
I used a grinder with a course wire brush this past weekend. The key to my success was the fact that the grinder spins at a rate of ten thousand rpm's...the wire wheel on the drill probably doesn't even reach half of that, maybe 2500 rpms. It took about three hours all together. The real job is reaching the bottom of the keel which will be tricky. My priority is simply to launch and set sail...I'll drop my keel after this season and give it the proper attention it deserves at that point. good luck
I used a grinder with a course wire brush this past weekend. The key to my success was the fact that the grinder spins at a rate of ten thousand rpm's...the wire wheel on the drill probably doesn't even reach half of that, maybe 2500 rpms. It took about three hours all together. The real job is reaching the bottom of the keel which will be tricky. My priority is simply to launch and set sail...I'll drop my keel after this season and give it the proper attention it deserves at that point. good luck
- Status