Keel damage - how bad?

Ross · Sep 6, 2011

If you can do the work youself it will take about 200 dollars for materials and sundries presuming you have a box full of power tools. If you hire it done probably somewhere around 3K.
My guess is that the boat pounded the keel against a hard bottom. If it happened in the water it probably flooded the boat. If it happened on land somebody probably dropped it. Take a hard look inside for broken tabbing and water stains .

zeehag · Sep 6, 2011

have someone who knows the marque look over the boat thoroughly. you can fix keel if you know how t o work fiberglass. looks like boat was neglected for a while as well as abused. good luck. this is a project.

tommays · Sep 6, 2011

Its already a pretty big project and i don't know enough about how that keel is built to say if it would cause and issue with the encapsulated ballast IF its is in fact built that way

RichH · Sep 6, 2011

Anytime you breach the fiberglass surrounding an 'encapsulated' keel and especially if the ballast is iron, or a mix of iron 'punchings' and cement, etc. ... not lead .... there is always the possibility of the development of RUST of the ballast. When such rust begins to form inside an 'encapsulation' the resultant iron oxide (ferric rust) is much less dense than the base metal and thus can develop extreme internal pressure to the encapsulation ... therefore always the risk in future that the ballast may eventually 'force itself' out of the boat by the extreme developed pressure.
So, that the encapsulation is evidently/possibly 'breached', that is a strong possibility of the already development of rust of/in the internal ballast, without the SPECIFIC investigation by a "Tartan Knowledgeable" surveyor including possible 'test borings' into the ballast .... should encourage one to RUN away.

That stated, I'd contact a long term Tartan dealer or Tartan (new ownership) with the specific HIN number first to ascertain if the ballast is actually lead .... or actually iron ... or composite of iron plus 'unknown something else'. If lead, then no problem with most repairs; if NOT lead then 'caveat emptor'. Most encapsulated iron ballasted boats (with unknown time for water penetration and 'rusting') with such damage ... usually 'go to the grinder, thence to a landfill'.

alexco38 · Sep 6, 2011

How's everything else; motor, rigging, mast, boom, deck, hatches, rudder etc.?

Those cost a lot more than just fixing the corner of the keel assuming the ballast hasn't been breached yet. I doubted there is much ballast material near that corner of the keel. May be just fiber glass.

Ron Roman · Sep 6, 2011

Tartan is still in business here in Ohio. Send them your pictures and your questions and I bet you'll get answers.

c_witch · Sep 6, 2011

Firstly it is a project boat in that there is a fair bit of work involved in repairing the damage. If you can do it yourself and the hull intregrity is intack and the remaining gear is good, then I'd say you might have a worthwhile boat to do some work on. If you have to have to work contracted out I'd say walk away from it.

Brina

tominny said:
I am looking at buying a 1974 34' Tartan. Great boat, but the aft keel has been damaged. Apparently during a haul. The price is suspiciously low ($8k).

I am wondering how bad this damage is and what it would take to fix it. Could there be other, related structural damage on the boat I should look for? At this point, just a broad idea and a cost and time estimate would be much appreciated! Unfortunately, there is a little rush to making a decision.

This would be my first boat and I would want to sail it, not have it end up as a big project.

Thanks a lot in advance for candid advice!

Rick I · Sep 6, 2011

Where's the rudder?

Cayennita · Sep 6, 2011

The repair is relatively minor. Tartan 34's have sailed all over the world. get a fiberglass repair man to look at it and give you an estimate. That boat has a keel/centerboard configuration. All the lead is up front and is an outside solid piece. The damage is to the rear of the centerboard trunk and is not structural. It can be fixed and you'll have a boat that looks beautiful in the water and has a rating under PHRF of 174. Not fast but not slow either. Good seakeeping. Check the motor. Some came with an Atomic 4 gas engine and might need overhaul or replacement. That is if you are still interested.

alexco38 · Sep 7, 2011

Looks like a diesel, which is good if it work. The keel is easy to repair. Non-structural, just fairing. Inside looks ok. Doesn't look like it has been under water. Pretty good price for a 34 footer.

Cayennita · Sep 7, 2011

If the boat is near Newport, RI, my son does fiberglass repairs. Let me know via private message if you want to follow up. Remember that it is a solid piece of lead on the front of the keel. The back is the centerboard trunk. Maybe you can put some water inside the boat at the rear of the bilge and see if it leaks out. I doubt it. Those boat were very well bulit. Go to the Tartan 34 Classic association. They and only they know the boat well enough to properly advice you.

tommays · Sep 7, 2011

In reading the add on yacthworld which i have done many times its pretty clear the boat is orginal 1974 in a bad way in that everything from the motor to the standing rigging is orginal or so old it may as well be

RichH · Sep 7, 2011

"Maybe you can put some water inside the boat at the rear of the bilge and see if it leaks out."
Once the bilge 'membrane' over an encapsulated keel is breached .... that is an ABSOLUTE cause for rejection.

Most encapsulated keels have voids behind the ballast area. These hollow void areas are easily broken off due to poor blocking of the keel. Call Tartan and/or one of its long time dealers and ascertain the exact composition of the keel ballast. Then, get a 'reknown' surveyor to put in writing the integrity of the encapsulation.
If all OK ... then you have have a good old boat to work on.

Cayennita · Sep 7, 2011

Remember that it is not encapsulated. It is a one piece bolted up front. You should be able to see the connection between the lead ballast and the keel. Again, Google the Tartan 34 and see for yourself the configuration. Or go to the owners group and discuss this with them.

Fly_H23 · Sep 7, 2011

tominny said:
I am looking at buying a 1974 34' Tartan. Great boat, but the aft keel has been damaged. Apparently during a haul. The price is suspiciously low ($8k).

I am wondering how bad this damage is and what it would take to fix it. Could there be other, related structural damage on the boat I should look for? At this point, just a broad idea and a cost and time estimate would be much appreciated! Unfortunately, there is a little rush to making a decision.

This would be my first boat and I would want to sail it, not have it end up as a big project.

Thanks a lot in advance for candid advice!

Please do not buy a "fixer upper" as your very first sailboat. You could find some very nice boats in this price range that are ready to go sailing today.
At very least have a good independent surveyor inspect the entire boat and be there when it's looked at. A few hundred dollars is very cheap and could help negotiate an even lower price.

It could be a nice boat fixed up but you'll spend much more time working on her than sailing her. Good luck!

RichH · Sep 7, 2011

Cayennita said:
Remember that it is not encapsulated. It is a one piece bolted up front. You should be able to see the connection between the lead ballast and the keel. Again, Google the Tartan 34 and see for yourself the configuration. Or go to the owners group and discuss this with them.

Like most Tartan K/CB designs, I believe, the 'ballast' (4800 lb.m)is carried low in the centerboard TRUNK (sides of the 'keel'). The centerboard is weighted FRG with just enough weight/mass for it to 'drop'. Most assuredly the centerboard does not weigh 4800 lb.m. in a Tartan 34.

Keel damage - how bad?

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