Help! I bought my Hunter 35.5 4 yrs ago, had a survey and all was well. We hit a rock motoring at 6 knots and "hopped" over it with a pretty good impact. This was 20 months ago. We had a diver check for a "smile" line at the time and he didn't see anything. We pulled it for bottom paint last month and it's been the boatyard blues since then. We had the typical "smile" crack, and water seeping out from it. When we pulled the keel, the yard found keel bolt corrosion. My insurance is telling me they'll cover the re-bedding and fairing of the keel due to the impact, but the corrosion is a long-term issue and not due to the impact -could this be true? I don't see how. It was out for 3 weeks before the keel got detached, and the water was still seeping out of the crack. How else could corrosion occur other than at the point where water comes in contact? I'll rule out dissimilar metals as I would hope Hunter would pay attention to that. Crevice corrosion through the bilge maybe? I'm at a loss. Any comments are appreciated. I've surfed the archives and only a couple of references to this condition, but no causes are discussed. THANKS for your time!
Keel bolt issues
- Thread starter LoriPetersen
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corrosion is a long term issue
This took years not months. All bolted on keel boats leak and the bolts and washer corrosion. Get used to cheap construction and high maintenance costs.
This took years not months. All bolted on keel boats leak and the bolts and washer corrosion. Get used to cheap construction and high maintenance costs.
Your insurance company is correct...
Any one of us could be in the same mess as you after the unfortunate event of hitting a rock at six knots. Just bite the bullet and get the job repaired and enjoy your time on the water.
Any one of us could be in the same mess as you after the unfortunate event of hitting a rock at six knots. Just bite the bullet and get the job repaired and enjoy your time on the water.
You don't want to know what goes on down there
Keels are one of those problem areas filled with dirty little secrets. Last week as I was walking in my boatyard I noticed an O'Day set up with its keel removed for repair--the amount of fiberglass actually holding the keel bolts to the lead keel are not anywhere near what you might hope. It was probably typical. Another dirty little secret is that lead keels can actually catalyze the electrolyis of steel bolts under the right conditions. I have a small keel bolt in the aft position that dissolved away around the nut; had I not been working in the bilge I would never have have seen the problem (the nut appeared to be attached until you touched it). I suspect this is also a more common problem than most of us realize. The rubbery paint you find in the bilge of many boats has that reassuring look of being waterproof, but may in fact absorb water when left standing. I doubt most bilge fiberglass is truly sealed against long-term water absorption unless you epoxy it yourself.
Keels are one of those problem areas filled with dirty little secrets. Last week as I was walking in my boatyard I noticed an O'Day set up with its keel removed for repair--the amount of fiberglass actually holding the keel bolts to the lead keel are not anywhere near what you might hope. It was probably typical. Another dirty little secret is that lead keels can actually catalyze the electrolyis of steel bolts under the right conditions. I have a small keel bolt in the aft position that dissolved away around the nut; had I not been working in the bilge I would never have have seen the problem (the nut appeared to be attached until you touched it). I suspect this is also a more common problem than most of us realize. The rubbery paint you find in the bilge of many boats has that reassuring look of being waterproof, but may in fact absorb water when left standing. I doubt most bilge fiberglass is truly sealed against long-term water absorption unless you epoxy it yourself.
Thanks for the input...is there more than one method?
I have yet to get an estimate from the yard on what it's going to cost (10 days so far), but they were slowed down by now finding cracks in the lining inside the boat. Looks like we're in for removing galley/hot water heater/plumbing/wiring/cng tank. I just want it back in the water at this point -it's summer! (yes, even in the NW). If you have any comments on the approach to re-doing the keelboats, I'd love to hear it. They want to cut them off an inch above the "J", inset a washer, and pour new lead over it. I have to say they don't sound super confident about the approach, just that they have done it before (like once, maybe).
I have yet to get an estimate from the yard on what it's going to cost (10 days so far), but they were slowed down by now finding cracks in the lining inside the boat. Looks like we're in for removing galley/hot water heater/plumbing/wiring/cng tank. I just want it back in the water at this point -it's summer! (yes, even in the NW). If you have any comments on the approach to re-doing the keelboats, I'd love to hear it. They want to cut them off an inch above the "J", inset a washer, and pour new lead over it. I have to say they don't sound super confident about the approach, just that they have done it before (like once, maybe).
Another Resource
You're right - this is not the time to have the boat out of the water!!! After waiting the better part of the year for the 'good' time to go cruising, paying slip fees etc.,... Anyway, for what it's going to cost to fix things 'their way' it would be good to spend a few bucks and consult with an indepent party. May I suggest contacting Alison Mazon of Portland, a marine surveyor. Web page: http://www.alisonmazon.com/ While she works in Portland and it would be costly to come up here, I think she would be willing to provide a couple recommendations of local area surveyors that you could consult with. Also, any other resources you could consult. Bob Perry might also be a resource - either by providing information (he does con$ulting) or maybe leading you to someone who can. His web page is: http://www.perryboat.com/ While it sounds like you want it done 'right', you don't want to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, either. Taking the galley cabinet out may require gutting the whole port gally-salon interior - arrrrgh. That would be an undertaking. Secondly, keep track of costs. With regard to costs, are they charging lay-days while you're waiting for their estimate? If you're at Seaview East or West, normally they only charge lay-days when the owner is doing the work but not when they're doing the work. Coming up with an estimate would seem like "their work". Oh, and the "boatyard blues" being in the yard that long will make a mess of the deck and coachroof. After surviving winter only to have this happen I can really feel for you.
You're right - this is not the time to have the boat out of the water!!! After waiting the better part of the year for the 'good' time to go cruising, paying slip fees etc.,... Anyway, for what it's going to cost to fix things 'their way' it would be good to spend a few bucks and consult with an indepent party. May I suggest contacting Alison Mazon of Portland, a marine surveyor. Web page: http://www.alisonmazon.com/ While she works in Portland and it would be costly to come up here, I think she would be willing to provide a couple recommendations of local area surveyors that you could consult with. Also, any other resources you could consult. Bob Perry might also be a resource - either by providing information (he does con$ulting) or maybe leading you to someone who can. His web page is: http://www.perryboat.com/ While it sounds like you want it done 'right', you don't want to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, either. Taking the galley cabinet out may require gutting the whole port gally-salon interior - arrrrgh. That would be an undertaking. Secondly, keep track of costs. With regard to costs, are they charging lay-days while you're waiting for their estimate? If you're at Seaview East or West, normally they only charge lay-days when the owner is doing the work but not when they're doing the work. Coming up with an estimate would seem like "their work". Oh, and the "boatyard blues" being in the yard that long will make a mess of the deck and coachroof. After surviving winter only to have this happen I can really feel for you.
Lori, assuming that your boat has SS keel...
bolts, corrosion should not be an issue, but what it could be is thread stretching caused from impact and/or cottage cheesing. According to my surveyor he says that when SS breaks down over time due to various marine factors it does so from the inside out. He says it turns the SS into a cottage cheese appearance around the threads and keel boat nut. When the keel hits an object hard it can cause the bolt threads to stretch losing their holding ability. What our yard does is to fabricate a one inch fiber glass washer which raises the keel boat nut into fresh threads. According to our yard who got the technical advice from Hunter Marine it makes for a good long term inexpensive repair as opposed to a very expensive job to replace the keel bolts. Terry
bolts, corrosion should not be an issue, but what it could be is thread stretching caused from impact and/or cottage cheesing. According to my surveyor he says that when SS breaks down over time due to various marine factors it does so from the inside out. He says it turns the SS into a cottage cheese appearance around the threads and keel boat nut. When the keel hits an object hard it can cause the bolt threads to stretch losing their holding ability. What our yard does is to fabricate a one inch fiber glass washer which raises the keel boat nut into fresh threads. According to our yard who got the technical advice from Hunter Marine it makes for a good long term inexpensive repair as opposed to a very expensive job to replace the keel bolts. Terry
The 35.5 has a lead keel, I'm told...
I FINALLY got to take a look at it Fri night (I live in Seattle but work M-Th in Vancouver BC). The bolts look okay except for one thread missing, but they do have a definite red discoloration. The boat is at Dunato's which has a good reputation, and the insurance (Boat/US) has a 3rd party surveyor checking each move. So, although the surveyor has the insurance co's best interest in mind, he's on board w/ all the repairs except we're still in a gray area on the keel bolts. Covered or not, I'll ask him what he thinks about the approach (but I'll wait for the insurance co's ruling first). It's always a good idea to have my ducks in a row before the conversation. I just wish all this wasn't so sloooowwwww!
I FINALLY got to take a look at it Fri night (I live in Seattle but work M-Th in Vancouver BC). The bolts look okay except for one thread missing, but they do have a definite red discoloration. The boat is at Dunato's which has a good reputation, and the insurance (Boat/US) has a 3rd party surveyor checking each move. So, although the surveyor has the insurance co's best interest in mind, he's on board w/ all the repairs except we're still in a gray area on the keel bolts. Covered or not, I'll ask him what he thinks about the approach (but I'll wait for the insurance co's ruling first). It's always a good idea to have my ducks in a row before the conversation. I just wish all this wasn't so sloooowwwww!
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