keel attachment

[NYSail]

Hello all,My previous boat (1977 Cal 34 III) had a dropped in lead balast glassed into the keel so I am new to the bolt-on type.I see the keel bolts, however was wondering how they build up the strength of the hull where the keel is attached. What type of problems occur with the keel / hull connection? Should the joint between the keel and hull be faired out with epoxy? What type of maintenance is needed?Opinions and advise appreciatedThanksGreg1986 P36-2

 

[Ross]

Why not invest a little time and effort and a

bit of money and glass in that ballast with some unidirectional glass cloth and resin and never have to be concerned about it again.

 

[CalebD]

I am not liking the idea of glassed in bolts

as I have them on my chainplate knee wall supports. Stainless steel does not fare well in the lack of oxygen and neither does wood when deprived of oxygen and exposed to salt water. The issue is access to the keel bolts should it ever need to be dropped again. If you glass the keel over then leave some access for wrenches from the inside leaving a sump or two in which you can insert a bilge pumps.Speaking honestly though, my sailboat is 40 years old and this problem is only surfacing now from the original manufacturing process. That is a pretty long time and the boat would be someone else's problem then or ... Another potential reason to keep the keel boats visible would be after a hard grounding to see if the attitude of the fixtures was still ok or if it was in danger of uncoupling and falling off, which would be a real drag. My current (old) Tartan 27' from '67 has a glassed in ballast so I can't say more exceot that I hope you take at least some of Ross's advice. Good luck!

 

[NYSail]

bolts

I would never glass the bolts in. The moment I would do this, I would have to remove the bolts.....However, maybe glass the hull / keel joint.

 

[Ross]

I was not suggesting that the bolts be glassed in

but rather that the entire keel be glassed in. Encapsulating the entire problem to the extent that you could remove the bolts and nothing would move ever. Glassing in the bolts wouldn't solve anything. You would still have the keel hanging on the bolts.

 

[NYSail]

I did

understand your original post........Thanks!

 

[Fred]

If it ain't broke

don't fix it.Bolt on keels are well proven and plenty strong. Their problems are usually associated with rusted or corroded bolts or crushed core in the keel. In either case, the keel loosens a little and water can get in.If you have no leaks around your keel bolts, that is, the bilge stays dry if you dry it with a sponge and rags, then watch for an hour or so, then you should not worry about your keel bolts.Fairing the keel/hull joint is cosmetic. Do it if you like, but only to make it smooth. If there is a leak from a loose keel, fairing will only stop it for a week or two.A layer of glass over the keel will not stick for long, will cost a ton of money, and will lower the value of the boat because any surveyor or knowlegable boat buyer will assume it is there to hide a bad fix of a major problem.If your keel/hull joint leaks, you can add new bolts without too much trauma, but you never mentioned a leak, so I repeat, If it Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It!

 

[Ross]

Fred, I was not advocating a layer of glass.

I would in the case of deteriorating keel bolts simply build up a structurally sound glass sheath over the entire keel, well bonded to the hull by well established fiber glass construction techniques. Not a bandaid approach but an incorporation of the keel into the structure of the hull. The glass should be no less than a half inch thick to take the force of a grounding.

 

[NYSail]

Nothing is

Broke. I am just interested in how they build up the strength of the hull to hold that amount of weight.Crushed core? Is there wood under there? And how would it get crushed?ThanksGreg

 

[Ross]

Hi Greg, Some builders use a solid glass lay-up

and a few use a core. If I were really curious I would drill a small test hole from the inside near one of the bolts and examine the chips. Then I would plug the hole with epoxy putty.

 

[Fred]

Greg, as Ross said, some

builders put a plywood or high density foam core in the keel stub where the keel bolts come through, in order to thicken the area. Older Catalinas have plywood. When the plywood fails over time, one fix is to chip it out and add some layers of glass, or better plywood and glass, then either tighten the old bolts or add new bolts.Ross, I'm sorry, but it's not a good idea to try to hold on an external keel with a layer (or layers) of glass. A half inch of glass would cost a lot of money, take more time than fixing keelbolts, and the result would make any knowlegable buyer run the other way when it's time to sell. It ain't easy to add a half inch of glass (gravity fighting you all the time) to the curved surface of the hull above the keel stub, fairing would be difficult and time consuming, and the keel would still flex inside, separate from the glass, get water in between, and make a nasty mess in a short time.Greg has not got a problem with his keel. He's just interested in the difference the two normal construction methods.

 

[Ross]

Fred, I added Airex core and several layers of

CSM and woven roving from the turn of the bilge to the top of the cabin on the inside of Bietzpadlin when I rebuilt her. I know about applying fiber glass overhead. It helps to know how the wallpaper ceilings.