In doing research on repowering from an Atomic 4 to diesel, it appears that Universal/Westerbeke base thier engines on Kabota diesels. What is the risk of buying a used/rebuilt Kabota of the same model number as installing that in my sailboat. Matched with a hurst transmission. It seems that the cost saving would be astronomical. I sail in the Great Lakes, so the "marine" environment isn't very corrosive. Has anyone done this? Any and all comments and concerns would be appreciated. Thanks
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Why not buy a used/rebuilt Westerbeke.
If you are going to do this, why not just look around for a used/rebuilt marinized engine. Most of these engines have things done to them that are specific for the marine environment and have kept the engine to fit where your Atomic 4 was located. When you purchase a used boat engine, they usually have the controls and transmission included. I seriously doubt that you are going to save ANY money by taking your route. Do you research and see what the differences are. You know you need a new fuel tank, fuel lines and the rest of the stuff (don't you?). Also consider that if you sell the boat and someone wants to take the boat to a salt water environment you may cause them (or yourself) all sort of headaches.
If you are going to do this, why not just look around for a used/rebuilt marinized engine. Most of these engines have things done to them that are specific for the marine environment and have kept the engine to fit where your Atomic 4 was located. When you purchase a used boat engine, they usually have the controls and transmission included. I seriously doubt that you are going to save ANY money by taking your route. Do you research and see what the differences are. You know you need a new fuel tank, fuel lines and the rest of the stuff (don't you?). Also consider that if you sell the boat and someone wants to take the boat to a salt water environment you may cause them (or yourself) all sort of headaches.
H
Homer
A4 Replacement
Seems to me they make an A4 exact replacement. Universal bought Kabota engines and marinized them look before Westerbeke took them over. Westerbeke bought engines from lots of suppliers and put their name on them (Perkins, Mistsubishi, .....) Buy the one that fits properly and the installation will be easier. Tractor motor don't have the right cooling system and water pump arangement for your application
Seems to me they make an A4 exact replacement. Universal bought Kabota engines and marinized them look before Westerbeke took them over. Westerbeke bought engines from lots of suppliers and put their name on them (Perkins, Mistsubishi, .....) Buy the one that fits properly and the installation will be easier. Tractor motor don't have the right cooling system and water pump arangement for your application
B
Bob Howie
Repowering
Last fall I finished repowering a 78h30, replacing the existing 9hp Yanmar YSM-12 with a 24-hp Bukh diesel. I spent over a year looking at all the options; built spreadsheets comparing all the costs, advantages and disadvantages and, at the end of the day, went with a new engine installation at a cost of about $8,000 total. No doubts, no questions, no unforseen problems, no overhauls and no lack of a warranty. The difference between going with a used engine of unknown pedigree and heritage sans warranty and going with a new-out-of-the-crate engine was less than $2,000 and given the cost of the project was inconsequential to the project. I have a lot of experience with A4s and the Universal/Westerbeke replacements that just "slip" in to the space formerly occupied by the A4s and they pretty much do what they claim they will. But, I'm not a fan of the Universal; it may have the Westerbeke name associated with it, but attend one of the major boat shows and try to get the Westerbeke guys to actually tell you that, yes, the Universal is now a true Westerbeke. The other word I'm fondly suspicious of is the word, "marinized." What exactly does that mean? In the case of the Chevy 454, it means different manifolds and a marine transmission, but it is still pretty much a truck engine. Saying an engine has been "marinized" is, to me, saying that the engine started life on land and then had some things done to it to adapt it to marine use. What things were done and how the engine survives are often vastly different product to product. I chose the Bukh engine -- and all the pundits said I was nuts -- over the Yanmars because the Yanmars are pretty much truck engines built by Toyota and "marinized." Now, they are good engines, but they started off on land first. Bukhs never were land-based; they came off a clean sheet of paper as marine engines originally to go into commerical certified lifeboats and to sit there for years before ever being started and then to run at max output as long as you could supply them with fuel. They are robust in ways Yanmar, for instance, never considered, but what their designers considered were the rigors facing them in the marine environment. If you want to know more, just email me at bhowie@txucom.net and I'll give you the full blow-by-blow, which should be the archives someplace, by the way. Suffice to say in conclusion that going with a used engine might be a good idea in some cases, but it's not one that would have worked for me when the bottom line was considered and it's not one that I would necessarily be quick to recommend when all the costs are considered. Good luck.
Last fall I finished repowering a 78h30, replacing the existing 9hp Yanmar YSM-12 with a 24-hp Bukh diesel. I spent over a year looking at all the options; built spreadsheets comparing all the costs, advantages and disadvantages and, at the end of the day, went with a new engine installation at a cost of about $8,000 total. No doubts, no questions, no unforseen problems, no overhauls and no lack of a warranty. The difference between going with a used engine of unknown pedigree and heritage sans warranty and going with a new-out-of-the-crate engine was less than $2,000 and given the cost of the project was inconsequential to the project. I have a lot of experience with A4s and the Universal/Westerbeke replacements that just "slip" in to the space formerly occupied by the A4s and they pretty much do what they claim they will. But, I'm not a fan of the Universal; it may have the Westerbeke name associated with it, but attend one of the major boat shows and try to get the Westerbeke guys to actually tell you that, yes, the Universal is now a true Westerbeke. The other word I'm fondly suspicious of is the word, "marinized." What exactly does that mean? In the case of the Chevy 454, it means different manifolds and a marine transmission, but it is still pretty much a truck engine. Saying an engine has been "marinized" is, to me, saying that the engine started life on land and then had some things done to it to adapt it to marine use. What things were done and how the engine survives are often vastly different product to product. I chose the Bukh engine -- and all the pundits said I was nuts -- over the Yanmars because the Yanmars are pretty much truck engines built by Toyota and "marinized." Now, they are good engines, but they started off on land first. Bukhs never were land-based; they came off a clean sheet of paper as marine engines originally to go into commerical certified lifeboats and to sit there for years before ever being started and then to run at max output as long as you could supply them with fuel. They are robust in ways Yanmar, for instance, never considered, but what their designers considered were the rigors facing them in the marine environment. If you want to know more, just email me at bhowie@txucom.net and I'll give you the full blow-by-blow, which should be the archives someplace, by the way. Suffice to say in conclusion that going with a used engine might be a good idea in some cases, but it's not one that would have worked for me when the bottom line was considered and it's not one that I would necessarily be quick to recommend when all the costs are considered. Good luck.
D
David
re-power
Bob has it right about the Westerbeke/Universal and the Yanmars. You can use the existing tank (if it is in good condition) which must be cleaned with the pickup screen removed and hoses replaced.
Bob has it right about the Westerbeke/Universal and the Yanmars. You can use the existing tank (if it is in good condition) which must be cleaned with the pickup screen removed and hoses replaced.
B
Bob Howie
A couple of other thoughts...
In a sense, I don't think I really responded to your specific question about the Kubota engine, so I thought I would add a couple of notes. First, your idea about taking a Kubota engine of the same model number and coupling it to a Hurst transmission may have some merit on the face of it and, yes, it would appear to be cost-effective. There may be some hidden issues, i.e., footprint, spacing of the mounts, whether it actually fits the existing bed, whether the oil pump pick-up can run at a angle etc., that you have to take a serious look at or you could find yourself in the unenviable and expensive situation of having to do some re-engineering. Also, Steve Dion is right in his suggestion about finding a used Westerbeke. That would be a smarter option to explore than the Kubota per se. I don't know for sure, but I feel comfortable in saying that Westerbeke did not model itself after Kubota. It might be the other way around. And, with a used Westerbeke, you are buying a well-known and well-support "family" name. However, you may very well find that a used Westerbeke, again not necessarily with a warranty, will run you up to 2/3rds what a new one will. The Bukh engine, just for comparison, costs about $5k brand new and in the crate and comes with a great warranty and excellent support. Also, if you do nothing else as you embark on this project, make absolutely certain all your agreements are in writing. DO NOT fail in this! Make sure you have documents that say "Qoute" NOT "Estimate." Be sure you accept all QUOTES in writing and that you make clear that there will be NO change orders increasing the cost of the project without your specific written acceptance and agreement. Costs on a project like this, otherwise, can spiral quickly out of control. And, whatever your final number comes up to be, set aside about 20% for unexpected contigencies like maybe having to replace a fuel tank, replacing all your old fuel lines with new, replacing all your fuel/water separators or having to buy new ones, new control cables for the new engine and so on. Ok, enough. I'm off the soap box. Ask me questions if you have them and have great luck with your project.
In a sense, I don't think I really responded to your specific question about the Kubota engine, so I thought I would add a couple of notes. First, your idea about taking a Kubota engine of the same model number and coupling it to a Hurst transmission may have some merit on the face of it and, yes, it would appear to be cost-effective. There may be some hidden issues, i.e., footprint, spacing of the mounts, whether it actually fits the existing bed, whether the oil pump pick-up can run at a angle etc., that you have to take a serious look at or you could find yourself in the unenviable and expensive situation of having to do some re-engineering. Also, Steve Dion is right in his suggestion about finding a used Westerbeke. That would be a smarter option to explore than the Kubota per se. I don't know for sure, but I feel comfortable in saying that Westerbeke did not model itself after Kubota. It might be the other way around. And, with a used Westerbeke, you are buying a well-known and well-support "family" name. However, you may very well find that a used Westerbeke, again not necessarily with a warranty, will run you up to 2/3rds what a new one will. The Bukh engine, just for comparison, costs about $5k brand new and in the crate and comes with a great warranty and excellent support. Also, if you do nothing else as you embark on this project, make absolutely certain all your agreements are in writing. DO NOT fail in this! Make sure you have documents that say "Qoute" NOT "Estimate." Be sure you accept all QUOTES in writing and that you make clear that there will be NO change orders increasing the cost of the project without your specific written acceptance and agreement. Costs on a project like this, otherwise, can spiral quickly out of control. And, whatever your final number comes up to be, set aside about 20% for unexpected contigencies like maybe having to replace a fuel tank, replacing all your old fuel lines with new, replacing all your fuel/water separators or having to buy new ones, new control cables for the new engine and so on. Ok, enough. I'm off the soap box. Ask me questions if you have them and have great luck with your project.
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