Just not Sure?

Duke · May 4, 2013

Buying a boat can be frustrating; older boats can be relatively low in initial cost, but often needed repairs and upgrades extract a significant investment in both money and time that could be better spent on a newer boat, and / or one less needy. I'm sure you have heard it before: even after you have reached an agreed purchase price with the owner you should make the final sale contingent on the findings of a survey. The price of a surveyor is money well spent.

FWIW: My first sailboat was a 1984 Catalina 27 with an inboard diesel, purchased in 1997. Her system were simple, reliable, easily maintained, and she was a very forgiving craft for this novice sailor.
Good luck on your search.

Terry in Naples · May 4, 2013

you get what you pay for

Buying a good boat will just cost more. Owners who have taken the time to keep their boat updated and well maintained naturally are not going to sell at the price of others who have neglected their boats. If you choose a boat that is bare bones expect to pay a lot of money and spend a lot of time bringing it to where you want it to be. On the other hand buying a well kept updated boat will get you on the water in style and not a lot of time in repair mode. That said all sellers are motivated. You just need to hit their low number and I can assure you, low balling will not get the seller in a mood for consessions but if you are buying a FSBO I suggest you first call and talk to the seller. Explain your position, concerns over the boat, updates etc. Then lastly discuss price. If you have a ceiling then tell the owner. You can save a lot of time if you are going to be too far apart. Negotiating can be fun and fruitful if done properly. Take it from sdomeone who sells for a living.

Stu Jackson · May 4, 2013

Sometimes folks just don't like negotiating, and kerry sounds like someone who is new to boats also. I've bought three used boats, and didn't bother dicking around with negotiating much on any of them. They were all priced fairly. The largest one we essentially split the difference, which was a few thousand for each of us on a $50K price. What kerry needs to do is figure out what a fair price is to begin with.

Terry's suggestions are spot on in that regard.

kerry, I suggest you do a few things:

-- narrow your searches down to a few boats that you do like. Your list is just too long, indicating that perhaps you're "all over the place" on boat selection. Size is NOT just the one thing to deal with, because you also have to take into account the accommodations. Which ones do you and your wife? like best? Then narrow the search.

-- read or obtain Don Casey's Inspecting the Aging Sailboat. They write books for just your situation. I believe there are some guidelines on pricing, but haven't read the book myself.

Keep coming back here, there will be more skippers willing to help.

Happy hunting and good luck.

KingAirDriver · May 4, 2013

Terry, if you are looking for a decent 27, I know of one with a Renault diesel with tiller steering, and a bimini that can be had for under 5k. It will need work, but it is a decent boat. It has not had time to be abused by its current owner yet! LOL

Let me know if you are interested. It is down here in Florida.

pk104 · May 5, 2013

The ideal boat will always be one you don't yet own for many reasons. You find out you spend more time on it then you thought, your family grows, you have more spendable income, and then you get older and want different creature comforts. Part of the progression of life. Find one you can afford and fits your current needs and get started down the road. Hopefully you will decide some of the best times of your life are times spent on the water.

captcoho · May 5, 2013

Kerryon, Where about are you located and where do you plan to sail.
There are some boats that are very well appointed, and others that are production boats with less ammenities.
The one thing about Catalina is the support and the availablity of parts. As others have suggested, older boats will be cheaper up front. But will become a money pit in repairs and upgrades. As well as some boat manufacturers have long been out of business, and parts will have to be fabricated or replaced with parts "made to fit".
Look for a boat that is still be manufactured and the company is still around.
And finially, when you find something you are interested in, get a good Marine Surveyor.
He should be able to tell you about the construction of the boat,any repairs or preventive maintaince needed, as well as the cost of repairs. And point out any concealed defects.
Good Luck, Enjoy the ride, getting there is part of the adventure......

dj2210 · May 6, 2013

When you're working with limited funds there will be compromises. My first large boat was a 69' Morgan 34. I had been looking with a broker for a short while with a budget of around 20k. Everything I looked at just didn't quite fit the bill. Then I came across the Morgan and how great it looked on the outside. It fit my preconceived notion of what a sailing vessel should look like. I knew then that it would be at the top of the list. A few weeks later after the survey it was mine. Was it perfect? No. Did I put lots of money into it? Yes. Since then I owned and invested in a West Wight Potter 19, Catalina 27 and now a Catalina 30. None are the perfect boat as life situations change, ie family size, job and location change, age etc. Get something if you can and enjoy.

jrowan · May 6, 2013

I have owned & sailed a lot of sail boats in the last 20 years, & they are all a compromise. I make a list of my basic requirements within a limited price range.
For a novice sailor, having a diesel engine provides better reliability & lower maintenance for an inboard engine. Out boards are easier still to maintain. As I got older, wheel steering is a big plus, as fighting a tiller can get old in rough seas. Sails are the real engine of the sailboat. Don't buy a boat with worn out sails, as they cost a bundle to replace. A basket case boat generally costs much more to restore the a better conditioned boat for a few thousand more. Lastly, I stay away from woody boats. I'd rather sail then sand. The classic woody Choy Lee's & such are pretty to look at, but a production fiberglass boat is easier to maintain. Fixed keel boats are also less maintenance the swing keels. The Catalina 27 is a good middle of the road starter boat, that is affordable, reliable & forgiving to the novice sailor. They are also always desireable on the used boat market & easy to seel if you out grow her.

ps. I can't believe that anyone would recommend any boat with a Renault engine. What A joke! Terrible reliability & impossible to get parts for.

I can also testify that Don Casey's "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" is an absolute must.

But good luck on your hunt, my favorite part of the boating experience.

KingAirDriver · May 7, 2013

PS I wasn't aware of the reliability issues... No need to get nasty...

py26129 · May 7, 2013

Renault Diesel

KingAirDriver said:
PS I wasn't aware of the reliability issues... No need to get nasty...

I have a friend who had a Mirage 27 with a Renalut diesel and the little engine ran without issue the whole 5 years he owned the boat, on the annual vacation s well as the rest of the season.

Matt

JK_Boston_Catalina310 · May 7, 2013

kerryonc27 said:
Thanks for the comments. I'm not really interested in a boat from Florida, simply because of the distance...thanks anyway.

What area are you looking in to buy the boat?

I guess the reason I've looked at many different manufacturers is because looking for used in a certain price range you need to explore all options. I'd really like to buy something 27 feet that is structurally and mechanically sound and the rest can be worked on to become yours.

In my opinion, you are doing this right. Don't focus on one type of boat, look for boats in your price point. Especially for a first boat. I firmly believe that you can't get your "perfect" boat on the first try. Or even your second try. What you want in your boat can only come from experience. You need to spend time look and then spend time using a boat to figure out what you really want. I did a post on my blog about this (http://svsmitty.wordpress.com/2013/03/08/the-right-boat/) and there is a bunch of posts on the Monkey Fist that might help you (http://svsmitty.wordpress.com/2013/03/08/the-right-boat/).

If you like the Catalina 27, one additional boat that I didn't see you mention that might suit your needs is the O'Day 272. O'Day was a little ahead of their time and the 272 layout is closer to more modern 27 footers. Very roomy, sails well and you can generally find them for under $10K (not sure what your budget is).

I'll focus on the Catalina 27, but I'd like to know how you knew your first boat was the right one or can you?

For us, it was one of those feelings that you just knew this was the one. Once we stepped aboard we started imagining us on it and how we would set it up. But don't fall in love; you might have to walk away if there is a problem or if the owner wants too much.

I will say that you are ahead of the game if you are already looking around this forum. There is a lot of good information here that can help with all aspects of the boat.

Good luck and fair winds,

Jesse

py26129 · May 7, 2013

Aother boat you may want to consider is the PY26 (Paceship 26) . Thy are maybe not as well known as the Catalinas or ODays but they are solid quite roomy, sail well and can be had for a vey reasonable price.

Cheers

Matt