Johnson Lever

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Doc_holiday

Doc_holiday

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Nov 19, 2011
1,489
MacGregor 26S Hampton, VA
Was at WM today and looked at the Johnson Levers. It said not for big loads. It didn't look robust enough to me for a forestay. Maybe it wasn't the right one. Can someone post a pic of the one they are using on the forestay? Or post a linked picture?
 
centerline

centerline

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Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
this is not necessarily the recommended site to purchase from but it will give you an Idea of what you are looking for.... scroll down to the proper page... or search "johnson lever 14-210" and see what you get. (without the quotation marks)

for your boat you will want the 14-210 model.... they can be had for around $70 if you shop for them
 
Sumner

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
centerline

centerline

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Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
Sumner said:
Since I increased the size of our forestay I also moved up and used the 14-205. The info on it and the new standing rigging is here...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/rigging-24.html

...and I bought it from Defender and they had to special order it but it was about $70,

Sum
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Sumner... i didnt check out your link this time, and not trying to be difficult, LOL, but when I changed my rigging, I sorta copied what you did, and im sure you have the larger 14-210 with the 5/16 pins, for up to a 5/32 headstay..... the 14-205 is smaller for the 1/8th headstay, which is all WM carries in stock. :D
 
Sumner

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
centerline said:
Sumner... i didnt check out your link this time, and not trying to be difficult, LOL, but when I changed my rigging, I sorta copied what you did, and im sure you have the larger 14-210 with the 5/16 pins, for up to a 5/32 headstay..... the 14-205 is smaller for the 1/8th headstay, which is all WM carries in stock. :D
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Yep you are entirely right. I got the numbers backwards :redface:. Thanks for paying attention ;),

Sum

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]============================[/FONT]

Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links
 
Doc_holiday

Doc_holiday

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Nov 19, 2011
1,489
MacGregor 26S Hampton, VA
Thanks, I am glad I asked. I was showing the admiral things on my wish list. I think the one I was looking at must have been for a gate in the lifeline.
 
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Sock Puppet

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Aug 14, 2013
308
MacGregor 26S High Desert
Doc_holiday said:
Thanks, I am glad I asked. I was showing the admiral things on my wish list. I think the one I was looking at must have been for a gate in the lifeline.
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I installed one on my Mac 22 and love it. Unfortunately, my computer is having issues so it may be a bit before I can share pics.
 
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Erik V

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Mar 14, 2012
104
Macgregor 25 Stony Point NY
To All
An alternate to the Johnson lever is to use your boom vang to tension the standing rigging. This method will works with a furler so you don’t have to shorten the head stay. I have moved the chain plate to the bow which makes this method easier to attach although you can use the bow cleat as the attachment point. One other upgrade is to replace the jib halyard and block with something more robust to stand up to the strain. Now connect your boom vang (at least 4:1) to the jib halyard which has been cleated off at the base of the mast. The other end attached to the bow cleat or original chain plate. All you have to do now is haul away and pin the head stay. I usually do this when the boat is on the trailer and I am on the ground but it can also be accomplished from the deck single handed. This method allows me to tension the rig to 20% (600#) of the shroud breaking strength. All the turnbuckles are pre set and locked, almost set it and forget it. When the boat is not being sailed I relive rig tension by inserting 2 long shackles between the furler and chain plate.

Hope this helps
Erik
 
centerline

centerline

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Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
Erik V said:
To All
An alternate to the Johnson lever is to use your boom vang to tension the standing rigging.

Erik
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I understand what your saying here, but the "method" of pulling the mast forward with the vang enough to make the forestay connection is not an alternate to a johnson lever.... the johnson lever is a device that is compact, always stays attached to the forestay and takes less than 30seconds to connect and tension it.... and your done. no other connections, preperations, untanglements, lines, knots, cleats or stowage..

and when its time to undo it, it goes the same way...

but the way you describe will work if you dont have a johnson lever, just as it will assist in raising the mast if you dont have a dedicated mast raising system.....

the johnson lever and the dedicated mast raising system are unnecessary items on our small boats, but they are so convenient, quick and easy that investing in them is a big plus when trailer sailing.......
 
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Erik V

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Mar 14, 2012
104
Macgregor 25 Stony Point NY
Our boats are lightly built and in fact they bend and flex quite a bit when tensioned properly. I had to place blocks between the port and starboard chain plates and cabin sides to prevent them from pulling inward and working under load. The head sail I use most of the time is a 150% Genoa which has a 22’ luff on a CDI furler. If I use a Johnson lever with this setup the head stay along with the furler foil would need to be shortened or I would need to move the top further up the mast neither of which I was prepared to do. The Johnson lever is convent but in my case it doesn’t work. Can you really get 600 +/- # of tension with the lever you are using with ought also adjusting the head stay turn buckle? I need to move the head stay 4” to get 600#. If you don’t have a properly tensioned rig the amount of head stay sag will increase as the wind picks up effecting you ability to point and trim for performance. I like to race and to that end try to get the most out of her, its all a matter of what floats you boat. Or perhaps its my type A personality, anyhow its fun.

Erik
 
Sumner

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
Erik V said:
.... The Johnson lever is convent but in my case it doesn’t work. Can you really get 600 +/- # of tension with the lever you are using with ought also adjusting the head stay turn buckle? I need to move the head stay 4” to get 600#. If you don’t have a properly tensioned rig the amount of head stay sag will increase as the wind picks up effecting you ability to point and trim for performance. I like to race and to that end try to get the most out of her, its all a matter of what floats you boat. Or perhaps its my type A personality, anyhow its fun. Erik
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What size is your forestay. I went up to 5/32 and if I remember right have about 320 lbs. on it using a Johnson lever and that is a lot more than the boat had at first and I'm sure more than most Mac owners have that just pull the forestay by hand and pin it and don't then adjust the turnbuckle.

I've never read of anyone else going to 600 lbs. but if that is what you want then I guess it works for you. If you are having to reinforce the boat to work with that then I feel you are probably much higher than the factory intended for normal use.

I'm sure I could get more than I have with the lever and still pin it fairly easily but I'm right at the recommended limits now. There is never any slack in the shrouds and going forward and hanging on them they never move. I'm pretty sure they are also a little over 300 lbs. and I set things up with a loos gauge.

I'd say the Johnson lever will have the majority of Mac owners tensioning their rigs higher than they have to this point.

I also moved the forestay up the mast as you mentioned and have the Johnson lever and the turnbuckle (only adjusted once) and that was easy to do but some (maybe the case in the post above this one) have replaced the turnbuckle with a Johnson lever and still achieved proper tension using one of the attach points offered by the lever that worked length/tension wise,

Sum

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]============================[/FONT]

Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links
 
Doc_holiday

Doc_holiday

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Nov 19, 2011
1,489
MacGregor 26S Hampton, VA
I can't say I have ever or probably will ever use any type of gauge to set the rigging on mine but then again, I am not out to win any races. As I started this, it is for the very reason that I wanted a JL because I have someone lean into the mast while I connect the pin and tighten the turn buckle. Granted, I keep 'Ohana in the water more than some so it's an event when I go through this. You can't play music with mine but you aren't going to move it by blowing on it either.

Fact is, there was one time that I was raising the mast alone and once I got it upright (the easy part). I lost grip of the halyard and couldn't hold the cable. I made a flying leap (you would have been impressed but still shook your head at my ideocy) and caught the mast before it would have bent itself over the slider. The mast was saved but my back hurt for a while. Strong back weak mind I guess.

That of course is more a lesson in why I need to rig up a raising system but as seldom as I do the rigging, I dont do it alone.
 
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Erik V

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Mar 14, 2012
104
Macgregor 25 Stony Point NY
Yup went to 5/32 forestay and yes 600# is just short of 20%. I have also reset the mast compression post so it no longer pumps. Keeping the original shroud to mast attachment points allows me to better bend the mast using the back stay when the wind picks up.
 
centerline

centerline

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Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
Erik V said:
Yup went to 5/32 forestay and yes 600# is just short of 20%. I have also reset the mast compression post so it no longer pumps. Keeping the original shroud to mast attachment points allows me to better bend the mast using the back stay when the wind picks up.
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but is this what the manufacture intended for the boat to be stressed at?....

it may be true that when in doubt as to what the manufacture specs are (of which I cant find any actual numbers, but only procedures), you set it to 20% of the min breaking strength of the cable.... so does this mean if you went to a 3/16 cable you should still use the 20% rule?

the boat was designed with a 1/8 headstay and 20% loading equates to about 360lbs.... and im sure this is closer to what Macgregor intended for it to be set to...

so my opinion is you have too much load on it and severley over stressing the hull...
 
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Erik V

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Mar 14, 2012
104
Macgregor 25 Stony Point NY
5/32 is neither overkill or under kill and is recommended by CDI; however it does offers added security. I think 3/16 would definitely be overkill. We are getting away form the original thread, my method it’s just an option or alternative for a Johnson lever they both accomplish the same thing. It all depends what you want and how you set up your boat. I have made many additions and changes all aimed at increasing performance, this is just one of them.


Erik
 
centerline

centerline

.
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
Erik V said:
5/32 is neither overkill or under kill and is recommended by CDI; however it does offers added security. I think 3/16 would definitely be overkill. We are getting away form the original thread, my method it’s just an option or alternative for a Johnson lever they both accomplish the same thing. It all depends what you want and how you set up your boat. I have made many additions and changes all aimed at increasing performance, this is just one of them.


Erik
Click to expand
no question that the 5/32 has a bit of added security for a furler system, but its not the size of the wire that is in question, but the loading of it...
just because you CAN load it to 600lbs, doesnt mean it should be, especially if the boat wasnt designed for that much stress....
it can also be loaded to 10-12% on that 5/32 stay, which is closer and more reasonable to the working load needed for the boat, and giving a relatively higher safety margine...
im sure macgregor knows the proper loading for his design, and what he created better than some guy at CDI sales does....



it is still a macgregor and over stressing the boat doenst make it a stronger boat... it has the opposite effect. they are plenty strong for their intended purposes... just sayin...:D
 
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Erik V

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Mar 14, 2012
104
Macgregor 25 Stony Point NY
I can’t find any limit in the MacGregor manual regarding standing rig tension. CDI makes no claims or recommendation in there install manual either, all they give is a recommended min/max head stay wire sizes. After sailing for 3 years with a tight rig she shows no sine of damage. I tightened up the rigging on the advice of a very seasoned sailor after he observed an excessive amount of head stay sag even in a moderate breeze. As I said I like to race, if the boat breaks I’ll fix it, so far it hasn’t but its performance has improved to the point where hull speed, or close to it, is the norm not the exception. She also goes to weather much better with a tight rig. I enjoy tinkering it floats MY boat.

Erik
 
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