I am in a winter battle with my friends over how to secure the sheets to the jib/genoa. I believe in one continous line with a loop in the middle to secure to the jib. Patsy says to use to independent lines with snap hooks. Joseph says to use 2 different lines with bowlines. I firmly believe my center/loop and one line is superior so there arent large knots to pull around shrouds and safer then a snap hook letting go; ie gettin hooked up on a shroud. I would love to hear comments because i want to win this one! God I cant wait to get back on the boat then have armchair regattas.
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jib sheet
when i put on new jib sheets i go with the continuous line w/the loop in the middle. but being the cheap b-----d i am, when the line becomes frayed(usually where it croses the lifelines), i cut it in the middle and use it as two seperate sheets, attaching the(old) bitter end to the jib with bowlines. this pretty much doubles the life of the sheets. but what do i know?
when i put on new jib sheets i go with the continuous line w/the loop in the middle. but being the cheap b-----d i am, when the line becomes frayed(usually where it croses the lifelines), i cut it in the middle and use it as two seperate sheets, attaching the(old) bitter end to the jib with bowlines. this pretty much doubles the life of the sheets. but what do i know?
jib sheets
I thinks this could be a very interesting thread to follow-great guestion. For what it is worth I use two lines with two half hitches for knots.
I thinks this could be a very interesting thread to follow-great guestion. For what it is worth I use two lines with two half hitches for knots.
Mine had a single line, so...
I replaced it with a single line with a loop in the middle, same as you. The way I figure, the fewer knots and loops on the line, the better. ~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
I replaced it with a single line with a loop in the middle, same as you. The way I figure, the fewer knots and loops on the line, the better. ~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
John,
I do the same as Ron.... I'm not sure that there is a truly right or wrong answer as to whether one continuous line w/ a loop or 2 lines tied w/ bowlines is "best". It seems hard to argue w/ the reasons that you give for one line... I agree... But, it seems more boats are rigged w/ 2 lines than 1 continuous... don't know why....
I do the same as Ron.... I'm not sure that there is a truly right or wrong answer as to whether one continuous line w/ a loop or 2 lines tied w/ bowlines is "best". It seems hard to argue w/ the reasons that you give for one line... I agree... But, it seems more boats are rigged w/ 2 lines than 1 continuous... don't know why....
Two Lines
If you have to change your genoa to a jib for heavy air it is easier to remove the two lines tied at the clew than to remove a single line. Otherwise you will need to have a line with each sail set up so you can quickly run the line through the jib lead blocks. The question I have is what is the best knot for the sheets? I can't imagine using shackles and having them banging all over the boat...ok for racing but not where you want to preseve your investment a little longer. Dave
If you have to change your genoa to a jib for heavy air it is easier to remove the two lines tied at the clew than to remove a single line. Otherwise you will need to have a line with each sail set up so you can quickly run the line through the jib lead blocks. The question I have is what is the best knot for the sheets? I can't imagine using shackles and having them banging all over the boat...ok for racing but not where you want to preseve your investment a little longer. Dave
Two / Bowline is my vote
It seems like there is no conensus, but I'm with Joseph. I've always used two for reasons mentioned (easier for sail changes), and a bowline as the knot because no matter what load is put on it, it's always easy to untie. The only thing that seems flat out wrong to me is snap shackles... seems like a great way to knock someone out or pound the heck out of the boat and rigging, although it would certainly make sail changes easier!
It seems like there is no conensus, but I'm with Joseph. I've always used two for reasons mentioned (easier for sail changes), and a bowline as the knot because no matter what load is put on it, it's always easy to untie. The only thing that seems flat out wrong to me is snap shackles... seems like a great way to knock someone out or pound the heck out of the boat and rigging, although it would certainly make sail changes easier!
An argument for two could be ...
that if you really lock up a sheet in a winch you could cut it and reattach another sheet pretty quickly. And what about on a spinnaker ... and all those people who attach a wisker pole to the loop in the bowline. But it does seem to be easier on a big boat to tie on 5/8s sheets with bowlines. I think it is basically a sheet size thing. Vic "Seven"
that if you really lock up a sheet in a winch you could cut it and reattach another sheet pretty quickly. And what about on a spinnaker ... and all those people who attach a wisker pole to the loop in the bowline. But it does seem to be easier on a big boat to tie on 5/8s sheets with bowlines. I think it is basically a sheet size thing. Vic "Seven"
Single line for small yachts.
On our bigger yacht we use two. Not confident that a single will not slip.
On our bigger yacht we use two. Not confident that a single will not slip.
Two lines with bowlines, if...
If you sail with hank-on sails like me, then two lines make it easier to change sails under way. This is especially true if the wind is picking up and you need to change from a genoa to the working jib. In addition, when the sheets get worn at the cleats, they can be reversed or shortened as needed without a whole lot of trouble. Bowlines will not snag on the shrouds if tied with the loop to the outside. Snap shackles are definitely a no-no. I had light aluminum sister clips on a dinghy and got popped on the cheek once while lowering the jib once. It hurt for days, so I can only imagine what a snap shackle would do. Peter H23 "Raven"
If you sail with hank-on sails like me, then two lines make it easier to change sails under way. This is especially true if the wind is picking up and you need to change from a genoa to the working jib. In addition, when the sheets get worn at the cleats, they can be reversed or shortened as needed without a whole lot of trouble. Bowlines will not snag on the shrouds if tied with the loop to the outside. Snap shackles are definitely a no-no. I had light aluminum sister clips on a dinghy and got popped on the cheek once while lowering the jib once. It hurt for days, so I can only imagine what a snap shackle would do. Peter H23 "Raven"
single line works for me
I think there might be something to the size of the boat issue. I had always seen two with bowlines but when I bought my 222 it was rigged with one single line. I found it pretty ingenious and have had no problems through my first season. Think this season, after adding roller furling, I am going to go to a lighter line though. She is equiped with 5/8" sheets which bind in the fairleads and I feel is a little stout for this vessel. Just my two cents.
I think there might be something to the size of the boat issue. I had always seen two with bowlines but when I bought my 222 it was rigged with one single line. I found it pretty ingenious and have had no problems through my first season. Think this season, after adding roller furling, I am going to go to a lighter line though. She is equiped with 5/8" sheets which bind in the fairleads and I feel is a little stout for this vessel. Just my two cents.
single line withshackle
I use a single line with a snap shackle secured by a bowland not. This way I need only one head sail sheet for any size sail. Ie storm jib, 100% jib, 125% or 150% genoa. Chang sails not lines.
I use a single line with a snap shackle secured by a bowland not. This way I need only one head sail sheet for any size sail. Ie storm jib, 100% jib, 125% or 150% genoa. Chang sails not lines.
Jim, buy a real good
football helmet, because when a snap shackle lets go (and it will wait until the wind is really up), it will come back at you like it was fired from a slingshot. Learned that one the hard way, but luckily wasn't hit by it. Learned something else at the same time, too: check all snap shackles to make sure the pin fully engages - on that one, as on many I've seen since then, the ring keeps the pin from engaging totally. A fix is to file the back side of the shackle a little bit, just enough to let the pin go a little farther in.
football helmet, because when a snap shackle lets go (and it will wait until the wind is really up), it will come back at you like it was fired from a slingshot. Learned that one the hard way, but luckily wasn't hit by it. Learned something else at the same time, too: check all snap shackles to make sure the pin fully engages - on that one, as on many I've seen since then, the ring keeps the pin from engaging totally. A fix is to file the back side of the shackle a little bit, just enough to let the pin go a little farther in.
NOT snap shackles
Snap shackles become a hazard if you have to go froward and mess with a flogging jib. Could knock you out or worse. Other than that, the only advantage to two sheets is that you can replace one independently if damaged or broken.
Snap shackles become a hazard if you have to go froward and mess with a flogging jib. Could knock you out or worse. Other than that, the only advantage to two sheets is that you can replace one independently if damaged or broken.
THANKS
I still agree on the single line method and thanks for the photo showing it. I understand 2 line theory but i never thought of using the modified fishermans knot to put pressure on. I'm going to try to get some tech support on this or maybe us sailing. There must be some way to settle this. Thanks everyone .
I still agree on the single line method and thanks for the photo showing it. I understand 2 line theory but i never thought of using the modified fishermans knot to put pressure on. I'm going to try to get some tech support on this or maybe us sailing. There must be some way to settle this. Thanks everyone .
I've asked Hunter......
I emailed Hunter customer service and have asked for their view and their guidelines. I had asked their customer service for the rope requirements for my 78 33' cherubini. They were fast at emailing my the length and size for all applications and I used that info to buy new rope from cajun yacht lines in canada.They are a great price try them. This is what started this whole debate. Hunter said the line requirmentr f ro my jib sheet is 3/8" filament by 100' so lets see what they say...
I emailed Hunter customer service and have asked for their view and their guidelines. I had asked their customer service for the rope requirements for my 78 33' cherubini. They were fast at emailing my the length and size for all applications and I used that info to buy new rope from cajun yacht lines in canada.They are a great price try them. This is what started this whole debate. Hunter said the line requirmentr f ro my jib sheet is 3/8" filament by 100' so lets see what they say...
line strength and chaf?
I like two lines because I can control chaf (SP?) by turning them end to end as I use them all season, and because I can change hanked on jibs easier. Another point, not yet discussed here, is the reduction in line strength by any knot. I use bowlines because they don't jam AND they don't reduce line strength very much. I looked at a chart, and couldn't find what the loop in the middle of a single line does to line strength. Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
I like two lines because I can control chaf (SP?) by turning them end to end as I use them all season, and because I can change hanked on jibs easier. Another point, not yet discussed here, is the reduction in line strength by any knot. I use bowlines because they don't jam AND they don't reduce line strength very much. I looked at a chart, and couldn't find what the loop in the middle of a single line does to line strength. Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
Two lines
for redundancy. I also use snap shackles spliced to the line so that the sail may be easily changed when the need arises. I have heard it said that getting hit by a flailing bowline knot is not significantly better than being hit by a snap shackle. If I need to change them end for end, it's no big deal to cut out the splice and splice them back in at the other end. Thing to watch with shackles, as said before, is that the pin be fully engaged and that the pull ring not unwind and catch on a lifeline or shroud. That happened to us but no harm came of it.
for redundancy. I also use snap shackles spliced to the line so that the sail may be easily changed when the need arises. I have heard it said that getting hit by a flailing bowline knot is not significantly better than being hit by a snap shackle. If I need to change them end for end, it's no big deal to cut out the splice and splice them back in at the other end. Thing to watch with shackles, as said before, is that the pin be fully engaged and that the pull ring not unwind and catch on a lifeline or shroud. That happened to us but no harm came of it.
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