Jib sheet cleating
- Thread starter RAD88
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Here's my set up. No Self tailing winches, the primaries have a cam cleat mounted on a riser... the secondaries have a simple clam (or Vee) cleat. Most older boats came standard with a "jam cleat"... which is a simple horn style cleat whose one side was designed to pinch or jam the line.
Whatever you decide to use, it must not be a captive type cleat.... it needs to be open, so the sheet can be thrown off quicly and easily.... so NO clutches, stoppers, fairleads etc.
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I guess my style is what Rich calls a 'slippery hitch' over a horn cleat. My cleats don't have that jam feature that Joe describes. I find that with just two turns (a turn at each horn, not a full turn - see the diagram) and two crossovers, the sheet never slips and I can quickly release it. Initially, I used a locking hitch to finish but I found that it isn't necessary and only hinders releasing.
http://www.animatedknots.com/cleatd...ge=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com
My ideal upgrade would be to replace my primary winches with those new Seldon self-tailing, reversable winches that you use to trim the sheet without releasing. I wonder if they can be bought on SBO?
http://www.animatedknots.com/cleatd...ge=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com
My ideal upgrade would be to replace my primary winches with those new Seldon self-tailing, reversable winches that you use to trim the sheet without releasing. I wonder if they can be bought on SBO?
I put "Winchers" on a 22' Gloucester that I once owned. They don't make self tailers out of your winch but do provide handy places to cleat and make quick releases of you sheets. They are pretty inexpensive and almost easy to install. They fit very snugly on the winch and I lost one over the side the first time i tried getting it on. They worked great for me as a single hander. Google them for further info and opinions.
Bill
Bill
Cam cleats work very well. I have one for every winch. Jammers upstream, open cam cleats downstream.
(see last photo in post)
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2010/11/capsize.html
I would also add that there shouldn't be too many wraps on the winch, if you want quick release; the number will vary with the winch, line, sail, and other rigging.
I like self-tailers for single-handed sailing, but often I remove the tail from the jaws.
(see last photo in post)
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2010/11/capsize.html
I would also add that there shouldn't be too many wraps on the winch, if you want quick release; the number will vary with the winch, line, sail, and other rigging.
I like self-tailers for single-handed sailing, but often I remove the tail from the jaws.
Per a suggestion by a fellow on this site, I just take three turns around the cleat. The last turn I pull fairly hard. This essentially jambs the sheet tight. I've sailed some pretty strong winds (20 kts, gusts to 25) with no slippage. Plus, it's a snap to release. Keep in mind that I have a 25 footer and I never use a winch handle, just three turns and a put little bit of back into it. A larger boat with more sail area might be a different story.
If you install a simple clam (as opposed to the horn/jam) cleat you don't need any turns. You just lift it up to release, snap it down to engage..... and they're really cheap.
on the left is a Schaeffer jam cleat.... the Middle is the ClamCleat.... and on the right is Ronstan's Vee Cleat... The Schaeffer is pricey, the clam and vee are very inexpensive.
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While this may be true on your boat (27') in lighter winds--it was true for my 1200-pound Stiletto 27 chute when the wind was moderate, though even that required a cam cleat to hold--releasing a winched line with no turns on the winch can be uncontrollable and dangerous. This should ONLY be done with hand-tensioned lines.
This is just as true if the line is held by a jammer; it is better practice to relieve the pressure with a winch before lifting the lever. There is simply too much energy release. I've made that mistake once in moderate conditions and was impressed by the forces involved.
The cleat should hold only the force you could reasonably hold when tailing the winch.
If you want the 'cats meow' for sheet handling, these are the 'best' way to go: Harken's Nixon Trigger Cleats ... there is a 'cult following' for these.
example: http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...t.do?pid=4176&familyName=Harken+Trigger+Cleat.
example: http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...t.do?pid=4176&familyName=Harken+Trigger+Cleat.
You mis read my comment. The "turns" I was referring to were the ones dscribner said he put around his horn cleat to secure the sheet.....NOT THE WRAPS ON THE WINCH. Give me just a little credit, please.
To clarify so you can think I'm competent or an idiot, or someplace in between, I put three turns on the winch then cleat it like I said. So a majority of the load is still on the winch. I do have a couple of clam cleats that I haven't installed yet. I need to do some work in the deck this spring so I'll get them on then.
I am corrected.
And sometimes warnings are targeted at the broader audience, not the poster, which was my intent. I thought, probably, you were making a reference about sailing in very light air, and the fact that some cleats can be released under modest load. I've flown a kite on even larger boats with no winch wraps in light air, but things can change quickly. So, the warning is worthwhile for those using jammers; never release a heavily loaded line without relieving the strain.
The trouble with posts is that we read too quickly and post too quickly. I found your wording ambiguous, but it was not if I had followed the thread more closely. My apology.
And sometimes warnings are targeted at the broader audience, not the poster, which was my intent. I thought, probably, you were making a reference about sailing in very light air, and the fact that some cleats can be released under modest load. I've flown a kite on even larger boats with no winch wraps in light air, but things can change quickly. So, the warning is worthwhile for those using jammers; never release a heavily loaded line without relieving the strain.
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