Jib Sail Beat Down..

Aug 16, 2015
143
O'Day 28 Salem, MA
Hey all.

Still a learning-the-hard-way sailor 4 years in and yesterday simply could not furl my jib in 20 knots of wind. Day was over and I’d pretty much had it. Turned on to the wind but couldn’t stay on it...and so on...Mr. Jib mightily flapping and giving me and the lines a beat down. Lost my fancy O’Day hat in the process and suffered the embarrassment of mooring with jib partially hanging out - and that wasn’t much fun either. Any guidance or recommendations appreciated. Tom O’Day 28.
 
Jan 4, 2010
1,037
Farr 30 San Francisco
Lubricate the thing, get an autopilot to hold you head to wind. Use a winch to crank on the furling line (I don't think that is recommended.)
 
May 29, 2018
457
Canel 25 foot Shiogama, japan
Hi Tom
I have some questions to clear things up.
1. simply could not furl my jib in 20 knots of wind
Does this mean you could not get the furler to rotate and thereby not furl?
Or that you could not control the sail in the furling process?
2.Turned on to the wind but couldn’t stay on it
Did you have the engine running to try to keep her on ?
Or were you trying to hold her with just the sails?
Did you have the main up?
3, mooring with jib partially hanging out
Was this because of a furler malfunction?
4. How did the furler function in the past and how was it when you finally berthed?
Knowing these thing would give us more to go on in advising you.

All the best
Gary
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
Try down wind which would reduce the apparent wind. As I’ve done in the past with a fouled furler, turn around several times to wrap the sail around your furler. It’s messy, but save you from getting beat from the sheets. Once it’s wrapped, find a sheltered spot to drop the hook and sort the mess out.
 
May 17, 2004
5,028
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
I'm also in the camp of furling while running downwind. It's so much less pressure on the sail that it should roll fairly easily. The only the to be careful of is not to accidentally jibe in the process.
 
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Oct 19, 2017
7,732
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Furling a roller furled jib while off the wind helps because with the slot opened further the furler isn't pulling directly against the sheet but more perpendicular to it. This means you don't have to let it go completely slack and flog the sheet.
However, if you are having trouble in 20 knots of wind on an O'day 28, you may have something binding in your furler. Do you have this problem on both tacks?

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
In a heavy breeze, I've done the furl while running trick, it works. I have also furled after I hove-to first. Sometimes a hove-to gives you the time you need to get your head straight. The boat will calm down, you can make sure all of your lines are true etc.

Furling from a hove-to position has some down sides though. First it only works well from one tack. On my boat the head-sail rolls clockwise so I can furl from a starboard hove-to. The head-sail is already shaped the same way as it wants to roll on the furler. Second, as you start to furl, the boat will round up which does take the pressure off of the sail but you have to complete the majority of the furling process before the nose crosses over. Usually not a problem but something to be aware of. Third, you will be dragging part of your head-sail across the mast as you begin the furl. Make sure there is nothing the head-sail can snag on (i.e. main sail reef hooks).
 
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ToddS

.
Sep 11, 2017
248
Beneteau 373 Cape Cod
I'll have to try this trick... Having never tried furling my sail while running down-wind... (well, maybe I did when the wind was too light to even fill the sails, but that's a non-issue), I'm curious if the jib sheets get tightened/trimmed by the rolling of the jib, making it more difficult as you continue furling, or whether this is a non issue, since the sheets are already far from being in a straight line from winch to block to forestay/furler... therefore leaving plenty of slack. I think maybe I just answered my own question (?) ... I'm just trying to get my head around the difference, since when heading into the wind, there's no tension on the sheets (other than short bursts from flogging) as you furl, but running, a sail could pull sheets pretty far forward before becoming slack. When running, you must have to let the sheets out somewhat to furl... no? Am I overthinking this? I'll probably have to just DO it to understand it.
 
May 17, 2004
5,028
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
I just leave one wrap on the winch with the lazy sheet, and keep a hand on the active sheet while I begin to furl. Once get it furled most of the way in I put the active sheet on the winch with one turn too. I find that one turn gives just enough friction to keep a little tension on the sheets for a nice furl.
 
Aug 16, 2015
143
O'Day 28 Salem, MA
Hi Tom
I have some questions to clear things up.
1. simply could not furl my jib in 20 knots of wind
Does this mean you could not get the furler to rotate and thereby not furl?
Or that you could not control the sail in the furling process?
2.Turned on to the wind but couldn’t stay on it
Did you have the engine running to try to keep her on ?
Or were you trying to hold her with just the sails?
Did you have the main up?
3, mooring with jib partially hanging out
Was this because of a furler malfunction?
4. How did the furler function in the past and how was it when you finally berthed?
Knowing these thing would give us more to go on in advising you.

All the best
Gary
Will reply here and thanks for all on responses. I know its an amateur inquiry - but this is where I go with any and all questions. Some of your questions answered:

- Main up and centered as best as possible - I usually take care of jib first.
- Engine running at about 3 knots and wheel in locked position. Odd channel tides where I was so boat would still veer.
- I did eventually get the furler line moving - just very difficult to do so and in the end the sail was not fully wound - not really even close. LIGHTBULB: Wondering if I simply didn't have enough line wound on the furler? That wouldn't explain the tough start, but maybe not being able to finish the process??
- In less brisk conditions furler has worked well - on either tack - I always lube every spring and it was spinning well.
- Once on the mooring I detached the furling line and manually wound the sail in. On reattaching furling line I gave it a few manual runs around the drum to give myself a bit more/less? line to work with. (See LIGHTBULB above).
- The thought of furling jib on a broad reach with main out feels like a bit of a challenge - but jib sail position certainly makes sense, and on the run always "feels" calmer. Guess I want the process to occur in a sane manor, irrespective of wind conditions. Of course, we don't always get what we want.....
- I don't want to spend the $'s on a fancy auto-pilot - any recommendations for a homemade version?
- Aside, have had some difficulty getting this O'Day 28 into a heave-to position. Pretty sure I have sail positions correct but it just about always rounds across the wind. Frustrating. Too much jib sail out? I'm told this should be a simple, and important, maneuver.

Thanks guys. Be safe. Tom O'Day 28.
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,989
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Ideas to explore:
  1. Inspect the furler to be sure it is functioning properly.
  2. Be sure you have fair leads from your cockpit to the furler for your furler line.
  3. Be sure that the angle of the furler line to your furler drum is correct depending on the manufacturers recommendation. To high or shallow will affect the way line wraps on the drum. If not evenly it can bind. Harken calls for 90degree angle between head stay to furler line.
  4. Procedures are many.
    1. The down wind method is a good one. Be sure you have plenty of room off any lee shore. You will be focused on the furling so have room not to run aground.
    2. Up wind start your furling after 50% slacking the jib. Like it was luffing but not flogging. Careful this will be a tight wrap. Solo I have one hand on the furling line and one hand on the sheet. If I need 2 hands on the furling line then the sheet is being monitored with a foot. I can always stop and adjust. Never let a line wrap your foot or body. Prep is required.
    3. If it is just too bad to complete or it gets stuck, you may have to go forward to control the sail and lines. PDF and Tether are required equipment. Follow jack line to bow. Stay low so you do not get tangled by flogging lines. This would be a great time to have that soft shackle on the jib sheets instead of a large metal snap shackle. Carry a couple of sail ties with you. This is a “QUICK AND DIRTY” job. You want to gather as much sail as possible and quick tie it to the forestay, like a cowboy hoof tying a rowdy steer. No throwing you hands up for the judges. Just limit the flogging and get back to the dock.
    4. This is also when you may consider hank on sails. It is easy to drop a hank on sail when the winds are blowing snot and then truss it up to the life lines.
  5. LUBE... One of the easiest ways to “lube” the furler is a squirt of dawn soap and a hose. Works on all open bearing furlers like Harken. ProFurler has sealed bearings so don’t waste of your time. When they rust inside the options are to replace the furler or remove and have a machine shop open the housing and replace the bearings.
Good luck and as with all sailing activities, practice is helpful.
 
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Oct 22, 2014
20,989
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
- I don't want to spend the $'s on a fancy auto-pilot
Understandable. Perhaps a brake or tied down. If a tiller then you can get a “Tiller Clutch” or “Tiller Tamer”. Some DIY ideas use line and surgical tubing to hold the tiller or wheel in a set position while the crew work quickly before the boat rounds up or down.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
- Aside, have had some difficulty getting this O'Day 28 into a heave-to position. Pretty sure I have sail positions correct but it just about always rounds across the wind. Frustrating. Too much jib sail out? I'm told this should be a simple, and important, maneuver.

Thanks guys. Be safe. Tom O'Day 28.
Some boats just don't hove-to very well.... but here are some ideas.
If she is crossing the wind, then you have too much pressure on your main sail or not enough pressure on your fore-sail or your rudder position is off. You don't really have as many options with your fore-sail so lets just look at the main and rudder. In a hove-to scenario, you want the boat to briefly go into irons but not cross the wind. So you need to lock your rudder in a position that will have your boat cross the wind. However, having your jib on the windward side will push the boat's nose to leeward. The rudder and the jib are working against each other and as you approach a stall you will fall off the wind for a second or two, pick up a little speed due to the main sail's action and you will round up a little and go back into irons. As your boat hobbles between being in irons and falling off the wind, you are "parking" the boat. If she picks up too much speed before she goes into irons you will cross the wind. In this case your main is too efficient. Let the boom out some or take the main off the center line to leeward using your traveler. Your other option is to adjust the rudder. It may seem counter intuitive but you may actually want a more aggressive angle on the rudder so that the boat rounds up before she picks up too much speed.

On each boat I have owned, I have taken the boat out on a modest breeze day and just played with the different controls until I found the sweet spot for a hove-to. It always surprises me how calm the boat feels when hove-to. Hope this helps.
 

LuzSD

.
Feb 21, 2009
1,009
Catalina 30 San Diego/ Dana Point, Ca.
Here’s another vote for furling on a beam to broad reach. We’ve always done it that way and it’s never been an issue. Engine on to satisfy our rule to never douse one mode of power before replacing with another. :waycool:
 
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Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
Will reply here and thanks for all on responses. I know its an amateur inquiry - but this is where I go with any and all questions. Some of your questions answered:


- I don't want to spend the $'s on a fancy auto-pilot - any recommendations for a homemade version?

Thanks guys. Be safe. Tom O'Day 28.
You don't necessarily need a tiller pilot. Just something to hold the tiller on a course, and give you the ability to get both hands free.

For all my boats bigger than a singlehander dinghy, I use the Tiller Clutch from www.wavefrontmarine.com. Don't even consider the Davis Marine Tiller Tamer, those things suck.

A friend of mine swears by the Tiller Stay, available here: https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop...ckpit/steering/tiller-stay-tiller-controller/ but I've never used this.

There used to be one called the Cansail Tiller Lock, but their website seems to be no more.

Or, for extra cheap, you could try a Cajun Tiller Tamer: http://www.blumhorst.com/potterpages/Photopoint/0005/cajun-tiller-tamer.htm
 
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May 17, 2004
5,028
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
Wondering if I simply didn't have enough line wound on the furler? That wouldn't explain the tough start, but maybe not being able to finish the process??
If there was line on the drum before you unfurled the sail then there should be enough to re-furl. If it was very windy then maybe the sail would wrap tighter and need more turns, but not a whole lot.
Guess I want the process to occur in a sane manor, irrespective of wind conditions. Of course, we don't always get what we want.....
I think you'll find that a downwind furl allows that. In calmer days don't turn down quite as far, leaving some wind in the sail for a tighter wrap. On windier days go down to blanket the sail and depower it more.
- I don't want to spend the $'s on a fancy auto-pilot - any recommendations for a homemade version?
Assuming you have the 28 with a wheel there's not much need for an autopilot when furling. Set the wheel brake, and just bump the wheel with an arm or a foot if you start to wander off course while you're furling. An autopilot is great for when you need to go below or to the mast, but furling from the cockpit should be manageable without it.
 
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