Jib/Genoa questions

[Manny]

Two questions!1) Is a Jib technically a Genoa if it is more than 100%?2) Telltales - On my jib (or is it a Genoa) there are telltales roughly 3 feet up from the tack and roughly 1 foot back from the luff (sorry if the terminology is wrong). When it seems that it is properly trimmed, the outside telltale streams straight back following the curve of the sail, but the inner telltale generally will "spin". It reminds me somewhat of a minute hand on a clock going way too fast - or Pete Townsend's guitar playing style... Is that correct or should the inner telltale stream back also with the shape of the sail? The picture attached is somewhat representative of what I see.Thanks,Manny

 

[Capn Ellis]

OOO...OOO...I know this!

In answer to #1 go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genoa_(sail)For #2 -short version- The windward and leeward telltales should both stream aft at the same time when the jib's angle of attack is properly adjusted. The long version requires much more info and the best place to get all that is in Don Guillette's book "The Sail Trim User's Guide."For that, go here: http://shop.hunterowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?fno=0&sku=56&cat=1321It'll be the best money you ever spent for your boat.

 

[Benny]

A Genoa is an overlapping jib or you could say

a headsail larger than the fore triangle.

 

[Bill Roosa]

You are pinching

You used the terms correctly BTW.You should bear off (turn to leeward) some to get the jib angle of attack correct. Alternatly you could tighten the sheet or use a barberhauler to pull the sheet inboard and accomplish the same thing or you could move the sheet lead car aft to flatten the sail and accomplish the same thing or you could bring the boom more toward the centerline of the boat and probably not get the windward tale-tail to stop doing the clock thing but it would slow down some. If you don't care about pointing the first is easiest, if you are tring to reach a mark to windward the second or third option is better. and remenber trim the jib first then the main and repeat till there is no increase in speed for that direction of travel.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Terms

I know lots of folks don't give a rip but some out there actually want to know the right terms and it does make talking about stuff easier.The tell-tail on the concave side of the sail is the windward one the one on the convex side is the leeward one.

 

[Jadedcrew]

Genoa

A Genoa, is a Jib Sail that has an "LP" that is longer than the "J". A 110% Jib has an LP that is equal to the J measurement plus 10% of the J. LP, Luff Perpendicular, measured from the luff to the clew so that the measured line forms two right triangles with the luff.If you are steering for speed using the jib tell tales, the inside tells should go from streaming to lifting, and back to streaming, and back to just lifting, etc! This is keeping the boat moving at it's best speed as trimmed.

 

[Jim Kolstoe]

Memonic

I used to see an advertisment, I think by North Sails, in the sailing press with a cartoon of a cowboy shooting his six-shooter at a sail's windward tell-tales, which were wool strands lifting. The caption was "Dance little woolies, dance." It has helped me remember that the windward tell-tales should altenate between streaming aft and lifting, as described by Mick.Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo

 

[Manny]

A big thanks for all the replies

I guess I have a Genoa, not a Jib!I never had a chance before to really pay attention to sail trim on the Delaware River, I was always tacking. Now at the upper bay I can go for a long time with out changing course and I am finally able to play with the sail trim and I am enjoying it. Downside is I am realizing I just don't have all the controls I should. No traveller, no lead cars for the Genoa sheets (just blocks on the toe rails - screwdriver needed for adjustment), no cunningham. What's a barberhauler? I think I need Don's book...Anyway, thanks so much for all the help.Manny

 

[Joseph Shirley]

Manny, you apparently have a Genoa Jib and can properly call it either

The term Genoa is more descriptive but you are correct either way. BTW if those are the only telltales you have you will eventually need some higher up. In your picture you are a bit off the wind, and the further off you go, the more you have to ease the sheet, and the further you ease the sheet, the further forward you have to move the sheet lead, or the top of the genoa will fall off and be ineffective. You can do it with your present setup but it's probably not worth the effort. You'll notice this if, when your sheet is eased, you you go forward to leeward and change the angle of your sheet lead by stepping on the sheet forward of the block.And one more thing. If your genoa sheet goes through the sheet block a couple of feet aft of where the genoa clew is, then you may be able to simulate a genoa track and movable car with a clew trimmer. You do this by removing the sheet from the block and run a new line through the block and back or aft to an accessible cleat (this could have some purchase as a small tackle). This line should have a smaller block or a fair-lead (round thimble) on the forward end, and the genoa sheet should then run through this fair-lead or small block to your winch. This will make the lead to your winch a little higher, so you may have to add a turning block some where to correct that lead. The idea is that by pulling the trimmer tighter you simulate moving a car forward just like putting your foot on the sheet now.When easing the trimmer however your clew will go a little further outboard than it does now which a lot of racers like because it allows a legal (within the race rules) way to open the slot between the main and the genoa beyond what you can get from just the sheet through the car. To narrow the slot however you have to use a barberhaul, which is any line or tackle used to trim the clew of a sail horizontally inboard.Some people don't like clew trimmers because the extra block or fair-lead clunks on the deck when you tack but many racers use them, and when you get used to them they are quick and easy to adjust. They are also cheaper to install than track and cars also.Have fun.Joe S