Hi All. I hope someone can help. I purchased a very nice pre-owned O'Day 222. It had no jib furling mechanism and I'd like to add one. A roller furler would be fine and less expensive I'm sure than a self-furler. Can someone advise me what parts are needed, what ones are extraneous, and who might do such work for me, since I don't have experience in this sort of retro-fit. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!! Gary
Jib Furlers for an O'Day 222
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Roller furling
You ask what parts are "extraneous" and which ones are needed. I think there may be a fundamental misunderstanding here. Roller furling units are self-contained add-ons. You don't make one from the parts that exist on a boat that is not so equipped. There have been lots of posts and threads about this topic in the past. Check the archives. For my money, the CDI roller furler is the best value. I have had my CDI roller furling unit for several years on my Oday 23, and I have not had one issue with it yet. You will have to have your existing sail modified for a roller furling unit; it will need a tape sewn into the luff, and a foam insert added to help hold the shape. It may need to be slightly recut too as the sail will likely fly a litter higher off the deck than before. You will also need some type of block arrangement to bring the furling line back to the cockpit. For a 22, I am guessing that means a stand up block affixed to the bow pulpit, and one or two blocks affixed to the stanchions to lead the line back. You will need a cleat or some other sturdy point to tie off the furling line too. Installation of the CDI is relatively easy assuming the mast is down. You will probably be able to use your existing headstay, but there is a chance that you will need a new one if the existing stay cannot be tightend up enough to accomodate the furling unit. Who can do this work for you? I paid my sailmaker to set up the unit on my headstay, but I installed the whole shebang on my boat. I bet that whoever you get to modify your jib can do it too. Also, check with your marina; I'm sure they can do the work, as could any rigger. That being said, if your marina is anything like mine, if you ask one guy there for help, you are almost immediately surrounded by a whole bunch of guys. You also mentioned "self-furlers"; I don't know what that refers to, so I can't comment on whether they are cheaper than roller furling units. I think when all was said and done, I paid my sailmaker about $800 total for an assembled CDI furler and modified jib. I installed the assembled unit myself (with help from the marina crew).
You ask what parts are "extraneous" and which ones are needed. I think there may be a fundamental misunderstanding here. Roller furling units are self-contained add-ons. You don't make one from the parts that exist on a boat that is not so equipped. There have been lots of posts and threads about this topic in the past. Check the archives. For my money, the CDI roller furler is the best value. I have had my CDI roller furling unit for several years on my Oday 23, and I have not had one issue with it yet. You will have to have your existing sail modified for a roller furling unit; it will need a tape sewn into the luff, and a foam insert added to help hold the shape. It may need to be slightly recut too as the sail will likely fly a litter higher off the deck than before. You will also need some type of block arrangement to bring the furling line back to the cockpit. For a 22, I am guessing that means a stand up block affixed to the bow pulpit, and one or two blocks affixed to the stanchions to lead the line back. You will need a cleat or some other sturdy point to tie off the furling line too. Installation of the CDI is relatively easy assuming the mast is down. You will probably be able to use your existing headstay, but there is a chance that you will need a new one if the existing stay cannot be tightend up enough to accomodate the furling unit. Who can do this work for you? I paid my sailmaker to set up the unit on my headstay, but I installed the whole shebang on my boat. I bet that whoever you get to modify your jib can do it too. Also, check with your marina; I'm sure they can do the work, as could any rigger. That being said, if your marina is anything like mine, if you ask one guy there for help, you are almost immediately surrounded by a whole bunch of guys. You also mentioned "self-furlers"; I don't know what that refers to, so I can't comment on whether they are cheaper than roller furling units. I think when all was said and done, I paid my sailmaker about $800 total for an assembled CDI furler and modified jib. I installed the assembled unit myself (with help from the marina crew).
quick reply
Thanks for the fast reply, Mike! I've read about the CDI myself and it looks like just what I need. But I am jealous - in my area there are no marinas that work on sailboats at all. I think the closest is Atlanta, 2 1/2 hours away. The project sounds like more work than I could tackle personally, but I'll keep looking. Thanks for your help.
Thanks for the fast reply, Mike! I've read about the CDI myself and it looks like just what I need. But I am jealous - in my area there are no marinas that work on sailboats at all. I think the closest is Atlanta, 2 1/2 hours away. The project sounds like more work than I could tackle personally, but I'll keep looking. Thanks for your help.
Second Mike
I second Mike on everything, including the CDI unit. I have a CDI on my OD22 and it has worked pretty well. I would just add a note here, the interaction of the furler foil and headsail halyard at the top of the mast requires some careful planning to prevent the halyard from wrapping around the foil when you furl it. There is a two to three page discussion of the correct angles/techniques necessary to do this correctly in my "boat mechanics bible" (I don't remember the actual name of the book). The angle at which the furling line enters the drum is also important for proper functioning. In the end, I wouldn't shy away from installing one myself, but I would read every single thing I could on the subject beforehand and make sure I had my angles right before anything gets drilled. Good luck, furlers are well worth it. Josh S/V Cassidy
I second Mike on everything, including the CDI unit. I have a CDI on my OD22 and it has worked pretty well. I would just add a note here, the interaction of the furler foil and headsail halyard at the top of the mast requires some careful planning to prevent the halyard from wrapping around the foil when you furl it. There is a two to three page discussion of the correct angles/techniques necessary to do this correctly in my "boat mechanics bible" (I don't remember the actual name of the book). The angle at which the furling line enters the drum is also important for proper functioning. In the end, I wouldn't shy away from installing one myself, but I would read every single thing I could on the subject beforehand and make sure I had my angles right before anything gets drilled. Good luck, furlers are well worth it. Josh S/V Cassidy
I'm confused....
When your 222 left the factory it had a furler, so in the meantime a previous owner has made some changes or some of the hardware has gone missing. Tell us a little about the jib that came with your boat. Does your jib have hanks? Is there a stainless steel wire inside the luff of the jib? The standard configuration of the O'day 222 and 192 are to hoist a hankless jib with a wire luff behind the forestay and pull it very taut with the winch on the port side of the mast. You should find a substantial U-bolt just behind the stem fitting where the little Schaeffer furling drum attached. The jib halyard should have a swivel at the end. If you are missing the drum (the most expensive part), you may want to consider just moving up to a CDI furler. The CDI fits over the forestay, instead of behind it, and allows the jib to be reefed down, where the standard wire-luff arrangement doesn't work in any intermediate position between all-the-way-out and completely furled. Anecdotally, I'd say that the CDI is much preferred over the factory arrangement.
When your 222 left the factory it had a furler, so in the meantime a previous owner has made some changes or some of the hardware has gone missing. Tell us a little about the jib that came with your boat. Does your jib have hanks? Is there a stainless steel wire inside the luff of the jib? The standard configuration of the O'day 222 and 192 are to hoist a hankless jib with a wire luff behind the forestay and pull it very taut with the winch on the port side of the mast. You should find a substantial U-bolt just behind the stem fitting where the little Schaeffer furling drum attached. The jib halyard should have a swivel at the end. If you are missing the drum (the most expensive part), you may want to consider just moving up to a CDI furler. The CDI fits over the forestay, instead of behind it, and allows the jib to be reefed down, where the standard wire-luff arrangement doesn't work in any intermediate position between all-the-way-out and completely furled. Anecdotally, I'd say that the CDI is much preferred over the factory arrangement.
CDI FF2
Gary, I also installed the CDI FF2 unit. It works like a charm. I had a new jib made at the same time since the old one was pretty worn, and it did not have enough sail area for my needs. I wanted a 135 for lighter air, and it was only about a 100-110. If you install the CDI yourself, make certain to read the instructions carefully, and measure the forestay length a bunch of times before cutting the plastic foil because you definitely don't want it too short. Also, you don't need the ball-bearing add-on. It rolls up just fine even in heavy winds with just the base unit. If you want, I can measure my foil and post the measurements. However, I still suggest you do your own measurements. I believe that O'Day used a couple of different mast configurations on the 222. Mine is a Dwyer I believe. The total cost a few years ago (sail with UV protection and luff-foam as well as the CDI unit) was about $800. You won't be disappointed. Dave s/v Hakuna Matata O'Day 222
Gary, I also installed the CDI FF2 unit. It works like a charm. I had a new jib made at the same time since the old one was pretty worn, and it did not have enough sail area for my needs. I wanted a 135 for lighter air, and it was only about a 100-110. If you install the CDI yourself, make certain to read the instructions carefully, and measure the forestay length a bunch of times before cutting the plastic foil because you definitely don't want it too short. Also, you don't need the ball-bearing add-on. It rolls up just fine even in heavy winds with just the base unit. If you want, I can measure my foil and post the measurements. However, I still suggest you do your own measurements. I believe that O'Day used a couple of different mast configurations on the 222. Mine is a Dwyer I believe. The total cost a few years ago (sail with UV protection and luff-foam as well as the CDI unit) was about $800. You won't be disappointed. Dave s/v Hakuna Matata O'Day 222
I just intalled a CDI furler
Gary, I have an O'Day 25 and installed a CDI furler last month. I did it all with the help of my wife (she was not happy but she just bought a dog and owed me). I have owned my boat for about 3 years and sailing for only that period of time. I would not consider myself especially "handy" although I do work on my cars and odd jobs around the house. I decided to install it myself because I wanted to "work" on the boat and the price I got to install it was higher then I thought it should be (in the end it was a fair quote). Before buying the furler I read the installation manuel on-line and bought a DVD on how to install it. I actully called CDI to confirm I needed a open turnbuclke and modify the stay to accept a pin (ie drill a small hole in the bolt end of the stay). They were very helpfully. Finally I bought my furler and new Genny from the sailwarehouse. My old genoa was 30 years old and I didn't think it was worth modifying. I installed my furler with my mast up. My biggest issue really was drilling the hole in the stay bolt. I bought an open turnbuclke and replaced the lower bolt and toggle with no problem. When I drilled the hole in the bolt end of the stay my bit broke inside. After much cursing I was able to fix it and move forward. My next issue was actually threading the stay through the luff. You are suppose to insert a line through the luff and attach the stay to line. Then pull on the line and slide the luff up until the end of the stay is at the bottom of the luff. The instructions said to use a wire to connect the wire to the pin hole (the one I just drilled) in the stay. I thought twine and tape would work but twice it broke about half way up the stay and came crashing down on my boat. Third time I used wire and it worked like a charm. The whole time my wife said I should have used wire. She was right. It was very awkward attaching everything with the weight of the luff pushing down. Dropping the mast would have made it easier. In my case I read everything I could and actually practiced drilling and mentally thought about how it was going to work. In the end it seemed everything required at least three tries before I got it right. But I did do it myself (with wife's constructive advice/orders - actually she was very helpful and we had a good time. I probably would have been to frustrated to finish if it wasn't for her). I compeltely understand how the thing works and feel good I did it. So in the end it is doable by yourself just prepare to spend a day putting it together. I thought two hours - I was wrong. Josh - I am not sure the haylard wraping around the luff is an issue on the CDI. It uses an ineranl haylard (inside the luff) - not the boats halyard - and the whole thing spins. I could be wrong but have not had any issues yet. Now I just hope I did it right and the mast stays up.
Scott
Gary, I have an O'Day 25 and installed a CDI furler last month. I did it all with the help of my wife (she was not happy but she just bought a dog and owed me). I have owned my boat for about 3 years and sailing for only that period of time. I would not consider myself especially "handy" although I do work on my cars and odd jobs around the house. I decided to install it myself because I wanted to "work" on the boat and the price I got to install it was higher then I thought it should be (in the end it was a fair quote). Before buying the furler I read the installation manuel on-line and bought a DVD on how to install it. I actully called CDI to confirm I needed a open turnbuclke and modify the stay to accept a pin (ie drill a small hole in the bolt end of the stay). They were very helpfully. Finally I bought my furler and new Genny from the sailwarehouse. My old genoa was 30 years old and I didn't think it was worth modifying. I installed my furler with my mast up. My biggest issue really was drilling the hole in the stay bolt. I bought an open turnbuclke and replaced the lower bolt and toggle with no problem. When I drilled the hole in the bolt end of the stay my bit broke inside. After much cursing I was able to fix it and move forward. My next issue was actually threading the stay through the luff. You are suppose to insert a line through the luff and attach the stay to line. Then pull on the line and slide the luff up until the end of the stay is at the bottom of the luff. The instructions said to use a wire to connect the wire to the pin hole (the one I just drilled) in the stay. I thought twine and tape would work but twice it broke about half way up the stay and came crashing down on my boat. Third time I used wire and it worked like a charm. The whole time my wife said I should have used wire. She was right. It was very awkward attaching everything with the weight of the luff pushing down. Dropping the mast would have made it easier. In my case I read everything I could and actually practiced drilling and mentally thought about how it was going to work. In the end it seemed everything required at least three tries before I got it right. But I did do it myself (with wife's constructive advice/orders - actually she was very helpful and we had a good time. I probably would have been to frustrated to finish if it wasn't for her). I compeltely understand how the thing works and feel good I did it. So in the end it is doable by yourself just prepare to spend a day putting it together. I thought two hours - I was wrong. Josh - I am not sure the haylard wraping around the luff is an issue on the CDI. It uses an ineranl haylard (inside the luff) - not the boats halyard - and the whole thing spins. I could be wrong but have not had any issues yet. Now I just hope I did it right and the mast stays up.
Scott
Halyard wrap
Scott is correct on halyard wrap; it is not an issue with CDI furlers as the halyard is contained within the foil itself. Halyard wrap is the bane of even the most expensive two part (drum at deck, swivel at the masthead) furler units. Not a problem for you if you have the CDI. As for making sure the furling line leaves the drum at the correct angle: I agree completely. The CDI directions (which you can see on their website) give good examples of right and wrong angles to lead. The angle is easily manipulated by the placement of a stand up block clampled to the bow pulpit.
Scott is correct on halyard wrap; it is not an issue with CDI furlers as the halyard is contained within the foil itself. Halyard wrap is the bane of even the most expensive two part (drum at deck, swivel at the masthead) furler units. Not a problem for you if you have the CDI. As for making sure the furling line leaves the drum at the correct angle: I agree completely. The CDI directions (which you can see on their website) give good examples of right and wrong angles to lead. The angle is easily manipulated by the placement of a stand up block clampled to the bow pulpit.
Scott R Give us an update
Scott - Interesting and informative. I have been looking at furlers and the CDI seems like a good choice. I am especially interested in your experience with SailWarehouse since their prices for the roller and the sail are substantially less than others - including Rudy. SW - about $1000 Rudy about $1300 - Or nmaybe I am reading the ads/web pages wrong. Rudy suggests a new head stay ----- which I think is a good idea and sorry to say it but with the money saved at SailWarehouse you can get this as well and still be lower cost than Rudy's combined package. So what is the genny from SailWarehouse like? How does the boat handle? After your first experiences with the sail what do you think? ma interested in your thoughts since this might be a purchase for me later this year. Thanks James
Scott - Interesting and informative. I have been looking at furlers and the CDI seems like a good choice. I am especially interested in your experience with SailWarehouse since their prices for the roller and the sail are substantially less than others - including Rudy. SW - about $1000 Rudy about $1300 - Or nmaybe I am reading the ads/web pages wrong. Rudy suggests a new head stay ----- which I think is a good idea and sorry to say it but with the money saved at SailWarehouse you can get this as well and still be lower cost than Rudy's combined package. So what is the genny from SailWarehouse like? How does the boat handle? After your first experiences with the sail what do you think? ma interested in your thoughts since this might be a purchase for me later this year. Thanks James
James
James, I had an interesting experience with Sailwarehouse. Again I have an O'Day 25 so my cost will be higher then a 222. I searched and found that sailwarehouse was the best deal for a DIY. I bought a 150% genny and upgraded from OEM to the "costal" sail. I also had them put the blue sunbrella on instead of the white. When I called and placed my order they were very helpful and even modified the length of the luff. The sails are made by Rolly Tasker in Asia. I ordered my sale in December and was supposed to get it around Jan 15. Jan 15 came and sailwarehouse called and said the sail had not come in (the CDI furler actually came early Jan directly from CDI)because of some issue with Tasker. I really didn't mind because I did not plan on installing until March/April. They did offer to send me a 150% genny to use until mine came in then switch out. So Feb 15 was suppose to be the new delv. date. Feb 15 came and still no sail - tasker did not include it in their shipment to sailwarehouse. Again they offered to send me a sail to use but since I didn't need it I told them "no" but I was becoming not happy. Finally it came in March. The sail in my opinon is great. I didn't realize how bad my old Genny was. It seems to be well made. The boat seems to sail better and sail trim adjustments make a noticeable difference. Again I think my old genoa was shot. I would buy from sailwarehouse again. Even though my sail didn't come in as scheduled they were willing to do everything possible to keep me on the water (i.e. send my a oem sail until mine came in). I need a new main and I will most likely get it from them. I got a good deal so that also helps smooth things out. I think I saved around $500 - $1,000 by using SWH. By the way the CDI luff comes coiled. You have to un-coil it within 48 hours or so of recieving it and re-coil it the opposite direction to get it to lay flat. My luff was 33 feet long and really hard to coil the opposite direction. I noticed on the box that for an additional few dollars they will send it in a 6 ft box that does not require the wrestling act I perfomed. If I did it again I would pay the additional charge. Scott
James, I had an interesting experience with Sailwarehouse. Again I have an O'Day 25 so my cost will be higher then a 222. I searched and found that sailwarehouse was the best deal for a DIY. I bought a 150% genny and upgraded from OEM to the "costal" sail. I also had them put the blue sunbrella on instead of the white. When I called and placed my order they were very helpful and even modified the length of the luff. The sails are made by Rolly Tasker in Asia. I ordered my sale in December and was supposed to get it around Jan 15. Jan 15 came and sailwarehouse called and said the sail had not come in (the CDI furler actually came early Jan directly from CDI)because of some issue with Tasker. I really didn't mind because I did not plan on installing until March/April. They did offer to send me a 150% genny to use until mine came in then switch out. So Feb 15 was suppose to be the new delv. date. Feb 15 came and still no sail - tasker did not include it in their shipment to sailwarehouse. Again they offered to send me a sail to use but since I didn't need it I told them "no" but I was becoming not happy. Finally it came in March. The sail in my opinon is great. I didn't realize how bad my old Genny was. It seems to be well made. The boat seems to sail better and sail trim adjustments make a noticeable difference. Again I think my old genoa was shot. I would buy from sailwarehouse again. Even though my sail didn't come in as scheduled they were willing to do everything possible to keep me on the water (i.e. send my a oem sail until mine came in). I need a new main and I will most likely get it from them. I got a good deal so that also helps smooth things out. I think I saved around $500 - $1,000 by using SWH. By the way the CDI luff comes coiled. You have to un-coil it within 48 hours or so of recieving it and re-coil it the opposite direction to get it to lay flat. My luff was 33 feet long and really hard to coil the opposite direction. I noticed on the box that for an additional few dollars they will send it in a 6 ft box that does not require the wrestling act I perfomed. If I did it again I would pay the additional charge. Scott
CDI on a 1984 222
Gary, I added a CDI FF2 furler with a new 150% genny and a new full batten main, all from "the sail warehouse". Total cost was about $1350 delivered. They were pretty easy to work with, everything arrived and was as advertised. My 222 came with a Dwyer mast, so I didn't have to change any of the standing rigging or change how it was connected, as Joe did for his z-spar mast. All in all This has been one of the best upgrades I have made. The CDI FF2 is adequate for the 222, an aluminum foil would be nice, but for the money the plastic extrusion foil works fine. One note, make sure you measure the headstay several times before you trim your foil extrusion, you only get one chance at this, so measure carefully. - Chuck D
Gary, I added a CDI FF2 furler with a new 150% genny and a new full batten main, all from "the sail warehouse". Total cost was about $1350 delivered. They were pretty easy to work with, everything arrived and was as advertised. My 222 came with a Dwyer mast, so I didn't have to change any of the standing rigging or change how it was connected, as Joe did for his z-spar mast. All in all This has been one of the best upgrades I have made. The CDI FF2 is adequate for the 222, an aluminum foil would be nice, but for the money the plastic extrusion foil works fine. One note, make sure you measure the headstay several times before you trim your foil extrusion, you only get one chance at this, so measure carefully. - Chuck D
Thanks!
I can't thank all of you guys enough. This is my first time posting a question here and I'm very impressed by the number of replies and depth of subject matter in your responses. I actually got very lucky - there IS a sailmaker/rigger an hour away who does this kind of thing for a living. He uses Harkin furlers. Anyone have opinions of this brand? He seems to believe (and he's a nationally ranked racer) that it holds up longer, much more rugged. I will leave the install to his and his partner's expertise. Thank you all again for responding so promptly! Sail on! Gary
I can't thank all of you guys enough. This is my first time posting a question here and I'm very impressed by the number of replies and depth of subject matter in your responses. I actually got very lucky - there IS a sailmaker/rigger an hour away who does this kind of thing for a living. He uses Harkin furlers. Anyone have opinions of this brand? He seems to believe (and he's a nationally ranked racer) that it holds up longer, much more rugged. I will leave the install to his and his partner's expertise. Thank you all again for responding so promptly! Sail on! Gary
to Dave K
Thanks Dave, I think I'll need to check out the jib and existing hardware more closely. It seems I do have a couple of parts unidentified in the owner's manual and on the spec sheet, so perhaps that's related to the furler. The boat is docked an hour away, so I won't get to it for several days. I may not need as much as I thought. But why would anyone unrig a furler? Gary
Thanks Dave, I think I'll need to check out the jib and existing hardware more closely. It seems I do have a couple of parts unidentified in the owner's manual and on the spec sheet, so perhaps that's related to the furler. The boat is docked an hour away, so I won't get to it for several days. I may not need as much as I thought. But why would anyone unrig a furler? Gary
Why unrig a furling sail?
In my case, it is to get the sail out of the sun. With the stock arrangement, the sail is very easy to take down. If I am going to leave the boat for more than a day, I drop the jib. The rolled sail with the wire luff can be stored below like a big noodle. I leave the furling drum in place at the bow and the swivel on the halyard but my boat is kept in a locked storage facility. Because those parts are expensive, your boat's previous owner may have elected to store them below with the sail. Perhaps you won't need to buy anything at all.
In my case, it is to get the sail out of the sun. With the stock arrangement, the sail is very easy to take down. If I am going to leave the boat for more than a day, I drop the jib. The rolled sail with the wire luff can be stored below like a big noodle. I leave the furling drum in place at the bow and the swivel on the halyard but my boat is kept in a locked storage facility. Because those parts are expensive, your boat's previous owner may have elected to store them below with the sail. Perhaps you won't need to buy anything at all.
At the end of the season---
my roller furler luff and drum will be removed and taken down my cellar to be hung straight out on a beam. All my stays and spreaders are removed from my mast, and my mast is wrapped with poly tarp to prevent chafing my main tarp. In the spring when I get through putting everything back together and have checked it out, I disconnect my fore stay from the tang and bungee the furler to the mast, so that I can transport my boat to the club. I don't want to take the chance of my fore stay getting bent at the Marine fitting while I trailer. Outside of that, my Gennie is staying on until I get ready to use it. I brought my boat down to the club today and launched it. That furler works great! My friend Wayne bought his CDI Furler and new sail from Sail Direct, and he's very happy with it. He buys a lot of merchandise of them and they treat him well. Joe
my roller furler luff and drum will be removed and taken down my cellar to be hung straight out on a beam. All my stays and spreaders are removed from my mast, and my mast is wrapped with poly tarp to prevent chafing my main tarp. In the spring when I get through putting everything back together and have checked it out, I disconnect my fore stay from the tang and bungee the furler to the mast, so that I can transport my boat to the club. I don't want to take the chance of my fore stay getting bent at the Marine fitting while I trailer. Outside of that, my Gennie is staying on until I get ready to use it. I brought my boat down to the club today and launched it. That furler works great! My friend Wayne bought his CDI Furler and new sail from Sail Direct, and he's very happy with it. He buys a lot of merchandise of them and they treat him well. Joe
Thanks Scott R and others
Thanks for the update Scott. ANd thanks to the others who have posted ith their experiences with other suppliers and the CDI furler. Thanks again - now to save the pennies. James
Thanks for the update Scott. ANd thanks to the others who have posted ith their experiences with other suppliers and the CDI furler. Thanks again - now to save the pennies. James
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