I am wanting to put a furler on for the jib on my 1980 Macgregor 25. Any suggestions on where to go or who to order it from?? Thanks,Randy
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CDI
in my opinion is the best bang for the buck. I bought mine from Sailnet but many vendors market them. You will need to send your jib (genoa) to a loft for mods so figure in that cost too.
in my opinion is the best bang for the buck. I bought mine from Sailnet but many vendors market them. You will need to send your jib (genoa) to a loft for mods so figure in that cost too.
Makes a world of difference ...
for my MAC25 after installing a CDI Roller furler. Model FF2. My son and I installed it in about 5 hours. We took our time and studied the installation guide closely. I purchased the CDI Roller furler at the chandlery on this site. Got the bearing upgrade for a total of 449 bucks or so. Then went to the SailWarehouse site and purchased a 135 headstail with number 5 luff tape sewn in. Also from the Sailwarehouse, I bought the entire forestay complete with swivels, turnbuckle and pins for 109 dollars for a MAC25. This insured that everything was up to spec and that the job would be done right. Including the 500 dollar cost of the new sail, I spent 1k dollars or so. It is now possible for me to single hand this boat in heavy wind and water. So I thing this was the best money I have put into this boat so far. Tom
for my MAC25 after installing a CDI Roller furler. Model FF2. My son and I installed it in about 5 hours. We took our time and studied the installation guide closely. I purchased the CDI Roller furler at the chandlery on this site. Got the bearing upgrade for a total of 449 bucks or so. Then went to the SailWarehouse site and purchased a 135 headstail with number 5 luff tape sewn in. Also from the Sailwarehouse, I bought the entire forestay complete with swivels, turnbuckle and pins for 109 dollars for a MAC25. This insured that everything was up to spec and that the job would be done right. Including the 500 dollar cost of the new sail, I spent 1k dollars or so. It is now possible for me to single hand this boat in heavy wind and water. So I thing this was the best money I have put into this boat so far. Tom
Furler info
Thanks for all the info.Sounds like you covered all the bases in regards to replacing all the hardware too. I think I will follow your instructions.
Thanks for all the info.Sounds like you covered all the bases in regards to replacing all the hardware too. I think I will follow your instructions.
Reply to You Yours ...
I agree with some of what you are saying. The rest, I assume must be correct. Interesting. Roller Furlers aren't for everyone, and I am glad to see You Yours weigh-in on this. I think you have to determine what the trade-offs are in your particular situation. Furlers may not be for particular tastes in sailing. Where on the other hand, for those like myself, who a enjoy a recreational approach to sailing and plan day trips in fair weather enjoy the safety and ease of setting and dowsing the headsail from the cockpit area. I would imagine sail performance, to my dismay, suffering after having installed my FF2. However, I knew beforehand what I was looking for before I bought my Furler. So yes, I can see that the addition of a roller furler to my MAC25 was not a sail performance investment. This is an 'all important' issue to keep in mind when considering a roller furler. You Yours diagrams this very well. Thanks You Yours. Tom
I agree with some of what you are saying. The rest, I assume must be correct. Interesting. Roller Furlers aren't for everyone, and I am glad to see You Yours weigh-in on this. I think you have to determine what the trade-offs are in your particular situation. Furlers may not be for particular tastes in sailing. Where on the other hand, for those like myself, who a enjoy a recreational approach to sailing and plan day trips in fair weather enjoy the safety and ease of setting and dowsing the headsail from the cockpit area. I would imagine sail performance, to my dismay, suffering after having installed my FF2. However, I knew beforehand what I was looking for before I bought my Furler. So yes, I can see that the addition of a roller furler to my MAC25 was not a sail performance investment. This is an 'all important' issue to keep in mind when considering a roller furler. You Yours diagrams this very well. Thanks You Yours. Tom
I like my CDI
It is a question of sailing style. I would not trade my furler for more performance. The ease of reducing sail area with a furler outweight by far the gain in sail shape..which I don't need anyway as top speed is not an objective for me. In early July I was cought in a sudden storm with my 155 genoa fully deployed and let me tell you that having that furler saved me a lot of pain... With my average sailing experience I did not notice any change in performance with and without a furler. The boat seems to point as well as other boats sailing on my pond. Cheers
It is a question of sailing style. I would not trade my furler for more performance. The ease of reducing sail area with a furler outweight by far the gain in sail shape..which I don't need anyway as top speed is not an objective for me. In early July I was cought in a sudden storm with my 155 genoa fully deployed and let me tell you that having that furler saved me a lot of pain... With my average sailing experience I did not notice any change in performance with and without a furler. The boat seems to point as well as other boats sailing on my pond. Cheers
Go for it!
Randy, don't let YY rain on your ideas. It takes a while for the purists to admit that new ideas are good. The CDI FF2 is the furler usually used on Macs. You will notice that almost all of the new sailboats, including Macs, have furlers. Many of the older boats are retrofiting them. 'Nuff said. Ben hit the nail right on the head. If you have ever clung to the bow trying to secure a headsail when the wind and waves have come up unexpectedly, you will appreciate this. With a furler, you stay in the cockpit, work the lines, and the foresail just does what it needs to do. When the winds calm down, just pull it back out. Quick, easy, safe. Next purchase, a spinnaker sock that has a funnel and just sucks up the chute. Also can be done from the cockpit. I have found good stuff at Minney's in Costa Mesa, CA. They will mail it to you. It is used, but their prices are great. Unfortunately, the Mac stuff is usually gone pretty fast.
Randy, don't let YY rain on your ideas. It takes a while for the purists to admit that new ideas are good. The CDI FF2 is the furler usually used on Macs. You will notice that almost all of the new sailboats, including Macs, have furlers. Many of the older boats are retrofiting them. 'Nuff said. Ben hit the nail right on the head. If you have ever clung to the bow trying to secure a headsail when the wind and waves have come up unexpectedly, you will appreciate this. With a furler, you stay in the cockpit, work the lines, and the foresail just does what it needs to do. When the winds calm down, just pull it back out. Quick, easy, safe. Next purchase, a spinnaker sock that has a funnel and just sucks up the chute. Also can be done from the cockpit. I have found good stuff at Minney's in Costa Mesa, CA. They will mail it to you. It is used, but their prices are great. Unfortunately, the Mac stuff is usually gone pretty fast.
Look Internally Friend!
I propose that the reason you have such disputes with "many a sailor" is because your position on the subject is flawed. You obviously can't comprehend the difference between or desire for someone to achieve greater comfort and convenience at the expense of minor sail shape compromise. I sugggest you open your mind to other possibilities and opinions other than your own, to truly become learned and respected as a subject matter expert.
I propose that the reason you have such disputes with "many a sailor" is because your position on the subject is flawed. You obviously can't comprehend the difference between or desire for someone to achieve greater comfort and convenience at the expense of minor sail shape compromise. I sugggest you open your mind to other possibilities and opinions other than your own, to truly become learned and respected as a subject matter expert.
It's your decision
Randy, As you can see, there are differences of opinion on this subject. It's really not about right and wrong, but is an individual decision. I suggest you make your decision on the following factors: 1. What is your sailing style? 2. Do you always have a person or two for crew? 3. Money? 4. Are you a sailor who is a purist and has to have every sail just right, or can you live with a little less performance in exchange for a lot of comfort and safety? The Macgregor concept is based on compromises. These boats are designed for trailering, comfort, and good sailing, all for a very reasonable price. I like my CDI FF2. It fits with a Mac well and saves me a lot of effort. Not perfect, but makes for fun sailing. That's what it's all about.
Randy, As you can see, there are differences of opinion on this subject. It's really not about right and wrong, but is an individual decision. I suggest you make your decision on the following factors: 1. What is your sailing style? 2. Do you always have a person or two for crew? 3. Money? 4. Are you a sailor who is a purist and has to have every sail just right, or can you live with a little less performance in exchange for a lot of comfort and safety? The Macgregor concept is based on compromises. These boats are designed for trailering, comfort, and good sailing, all for a very reasonable price. I like my CDI FF2. It fits with a Mac well and saves me a lot of effort. Not perfect, but makes for fun sailing. That's what it's all about.
Ditto
Ed nailed it: "The Macgregor concept is based on compromises." Macs have other shortcomings when it comes to sail shape besides whether it has a furler or not. IMHO, serious boats come with adjustable sheet tracks for the jib and genoa. There's not even a place to put effective genoa tracks on my 26S.
Ed nailed it: "The Macgregor concept is based on compromises." Macs have other shortcomings when it comes to sail shape besides whether it has a furler or not. IMHO, serious boats come with adjustable sheet tracks for the jib and genoa. There's not even a place to put effective genoa tracks on my 26S.
Furler Info
Wow this is great stuff and timely, too, because I am about to order a new jib. I will buy a hanked on sail for the performance and for the fact that going forward to change sails is a non-issue for me or any of my crew- we are good at it! One good thing about my genoa (I don't have a working jib right now), when I release the halyard, it falls to the deck and makes changing it really easy. I sailed against another D model last Sat and he out climbed me to windward because (at least partly) he put a working jiob on and sheeted it iside the spreaders, which I could not do with my genoa. Weight aloft: are you kidding? Any weight aloft is magnified in it's effect by a factor of at least nine to one. Every ounce at the masthead has almost the effect of a pound as far as heeling effects go. This really hits me hard with a water ballast boat. So if sailing easily is your bag, regardless of performance, by all means get a good furler. If you take it personally when another boat sails higher than you do, get a hanked on sail and tune your rig for best performance. John S Boise
Wow this is great stuff and timely, too, because I am about to order a new jib. I will buy a hanked on sail for the performance and for the fact that going forward to change sails is a non-issue for me or any of my crew- we are good at it! One good thing about my genoa (I don't have a working jib right now), when I release the halyard, it falls to the deck and makes changing it really easy. I sailed against another D model last Sat and he out climbed me to windward because (at least partly) he put a working jiob on and sheeted it iside the spreaders, which I could not do with my genoa. Weight aloft: are you kidding? Any weight aloft is magnified in it's effect by a factor of at least nine to one. Every ounce at the masthead has almost the effect of a pound as far as heeling effects go. This really hits me hard with a water ballast boat. So if sailing easily is your bag, regardless of performance, by all means get a good furler. If you take it personally when another boat sails higher than you do, get a hanked on sail and tune your rig for best performance. John S Boise
My Experience ...
My experience is here in Florida where Severe thunderstorms appear in the length of time it takes you to duck into the cabin to grab a coke out of the cooler and to arrive on deck makes having control of sails a hit or miss ordeal. Trying to pull-down a hanked-on 150 genoa in 40kts plus gusts, unclipping and stuffing the monster in a sailbag that is flying around in the wind while the sail tries to ripp your right hear off will make a believer out of you. Make the ignorant mistake of doing this while the main sail is cleated and no one at the helm but a tiller tamer and you will be suprised how strong your teeth are at holding on to the bow pulpit while your body washes into the sea! So idiots like me, need not wander out to the bow in pop-up storms of the Florida type. Furlers make my life more safer and band-aid free! Tom
My experience is here in Florida where Severe thunderstorms appear in the length of time it takes you to duck into the cabin to grab a coke out of the cooler and to arrive on deck makes having control of sails a hit or miss ordeal. Trying to pull-down a hanked-on 150 genoa in 40kts plus gusts, unclipping and stuffing the monster in a sailbag that is flying around in the wind while the sail tries to ripp your right hear off will make a believer out of you. Make the ignorant mistake of doing this while the main sail is cleated and no one at the helm but a tiller tamer and you will be suprised how strong your teeth are at holding on to the bow pulpit while your body washes into the sea! So idiots like me, need not wander out to the bow in pop-up storms of the Florida type. Furlers make my life more safer and band-aid free! Tom
YY, Watching his boat sail away
I can see it now. Someday, when You Yours is trying to singlehand his boat he goes forward to furl the jib in 40kts wind and 6' waves. One catches him and suddenly he is swimming. As the boat sails off into the horizon, he mutters, "Darn, I wish I had bought a FF2 furler!" Then he says, "Double darn, I wish I had my PFD on!" It's about safety. The other thing about Macs is that they are difficult to walk up to the bow. Not enought space for good footing, like most sailboats. That's why a furler is such a good idea for Macs. But we seem to have drifted off Randy's original question. Does anyone know of a place to order or install a furler in the Houston area? My 26X already had one when I bought it.
I can see it now. Someday, when You Yours is trying to singlehand his boat he goes forward to furl the jib in 40kts wind and 6' waves. One catches him and suddenly he is swimming. As the boat sails off into the horizon, he mutters, "Darn, I wish I had bought a FF2 furler!" Then he says, "Double darn, I wish I had my PFD on!" It's about safety. The other thing about Macs is that they are difficult to walk up to the bow. Not enought space for good footing, like most sailboats. That's why a furler is such a good idea for Macs. But we seem to have drifted off Randy's original question. Does anyone know of a place to order or install a furler in the Houston area? My 26X already had one when I bought it.
Google
on "CDI Furler" and see how many hits you get. I suppose every one is a rank amateur sailor that owns a CDI "toy". Mine works for my application. As I said before, it's the best bang for the buck. You can spend much more for a Harken or none at all and hank your sails. Whatever floats your boat - pun intended.
on "CDI Furler" and see how many hits you get. I suppose every one is a rank amateur sailor that owns a CDI "toy". Mine works for my application. As I said before, it's the best bang for the buck. You can spend much more for a Harken or none at all and hank your sails. Whatever floats your boat - pun intended.
Downhauls
One thing I haven't read on this thread is having a down-haul on the headsail. I can see the points of having a roller furling or not having one, it's a matter of personal preference. I can see the benefits both ways. The important thing is, do what's comfortable for you, don't do it because it's what everyone else is doing. I'm looking into furling systems, but I'm a year or so off before I would pull the trigger on buying one if I decide I want/need it. Maybe for coastal sailing where tides might make me quite a bit more timid in rough weather, I could justify it easier. For sailing the lakes in my area, it doesn't seem as easy to justify. I think for single-handing, it sounds like it would be a good safety feature. Another way to go about it for single-handed safety in the absence of a roller furling unit is to run a 1/4" down-haul line to the sail head, install a block at the foot of the forestay so the down-haul will parallel your head sail luff, route it through a fair-lead or two back to the cockpit and terminate at a cam cleat to keep tension on it. Assuming you've routed your halyards to cockpit, when you need to drop the head sail in a hurry, let out the halyard, pop the down-haul from the cam cleat, pull like hell, and grab the lazy jib sheet and pull the clew to center. Now, all that said, it doesn't keep you from having to go to the foredeck, un-hank the present sail and hank another one on, but it will take care of getting your sail area down in a real hurry so you can regain control.
One thing I haven't read on this thread is having a down-haul on the headsail. I can see the points of having a roller furling or not having one, it's a matter of personal preference. I can see the benefits both ways. The important thing is, do what's comfortable for you, don't do it because it's what everyone else is doing. I'm looking into furling systems, but I'm a year or so off before I would pull the trigger on buying one if I decide I want/need it. Maybe for coastal sailing where tides might make me quite a bit more timid in rough weather, I could justify it easier. For sailing the lakes in my area, it doesn't seem as easy to justify. I think for single-handing, it sounds like it would be a good safety feature. Another way to go about it for single-handed safety in the absence of a roller furling unit is to run a 1/4" down-haul line to the sail head, install a block at the foot of the forestay so the down-haul will parallel your head sail luff, route it through a fair-lead or two back to the cockpit and terminate at a cam cleat to keep tension on it. Assuming you've routed your halyards to cockpit, when you need to drop the head sail in a hurry, let out the halyard, pop the down-haul from the cam cleat, pull like hell, and grab the lazy jib sheet and pull the clew to center. Now, all that said, it doesn't keep you from having to go to the foredeck, un-hank the present sail and hank another one on, but it will take care of getting your sail area down in a real hurry so you can regain control.
amusing, but silly
Glad to read you are enjoying yourself YY. I suppose you have an explanation for MacGregor offering the CDI "toy" on new 26M's too. It's an accessory, they could offer any/all brand(s). "Real Sailors know the difference". I guess the Mac isn't a real sailboat? Or could it be what has already been mentioned, the Mac is a compromise? You need to keep your bias to yourself. CDI wouldn't sell in large numbers if it was junk. Word gets out. Especially with the 'net.
Glad to read you are enjoying yourself YY. I suppose you have an explanation for MacGregor offering the CDI "toy" on new 26M's too. It's an accessory, they could offer any/all brand(s). "Real Sailors know the difference". I guess the Mac isn't a real sailboat? Or could it be what has already been mentioned, the Mac is a compromise? You need to keep your bias to yourself. CDI wouldn't sell in large numbers if it was junk. Word gets out. Especially with the 'net.
Walter Mitty to You
BTW, it's Walter Mitty, not Middy. YY, you must have noticed the large number of us who actually LIKE the FF2. Not gold plated, but they work. Recliner, remote control? Hey, that sounds pretty good. I sure like the remote starter on my Honda. Swell! Keep your keel pointing down.
BTW, it's Walter Mitty, not Middy. YY, you must have noticed the large number of us who actually LIKE the FF2. Not gold plated, but they work. Recliner, remote control? Hey, that sounds pretty good. I sure like the remote starter on my Honda. Swell! Keep your keel pointing down.
Puh-leeze
Okay, this is my last post on this subject. I hope Randy can glean some useful information from the rantings here. The link below is to the Macgregor factory website. Scroll down and read about the optional CDI FF2 furler.
Okay, this is my last post on this subject. I hope Randy can glean some useful information from the rantings here. The link below is to the Macgregor factory website. Scroll down and read about the optional CDI FF2 furler.
Another way to look at this...
Man - what a thread! I asked these same question a year ago on several forums. Since then, I purchased a Mac 26S that already had a CDI FF2 installed. Since it came with a 150 genoa and a jib, I then asked if anyone with a furler actually changes sails. I received a resounding "rarely" - and the few that did, changed before heading out - primarily to a smaller jib if high wwinds were forecast. The CDI unit is more cumbersome for this but not nearly the hardship some describe... Anyway, when I asked why few even change to a smaller jib (reef instead), the answer was interesting - and made sense. In most situations where you are running reefed, there is sufficient wind to do hull speed - even with an inefficient sail shape up front. So far, I've found this to be true - and many times I was glad to just let the genoa out when the wind dropped, instead of having to change anything. Gets pretty wild on the "pointy end" since the wind usually drops before the waves... Preference? I found the CDI with bearings to be almost the price of the Snap Furl. I liked the latter construction better plus the larger diameter drum makes a big difference when pulling it in. "Reefing" is exactly the same for both - wind the sail around an extrusion - so you can decide whether both actually "reef" or not. They both "reduce sail area" and facilitate balancing the boat in strong winds. It's all just one big compromise anyway... Chris
Man - what a thread! I asked these same question a year ago on several forums. Since then, I purchased a Mac 26S that already had a CDI FF2 installed. Since it came with a 150 genoa and a jib, I then asked if anyone with a furler actually changes sails. I received a resounding "rarely" - and the few that did, changed before heading out - primarily to a smaller jib if high wwinds were forecast. The CDI unit is more cumbersome for this but not nearly the hardship some describe... Anyway, when I asked why few even change to a smaller jib (reef instead), the answer was interesting - and made sense. In most situations where you are running reefed, there is sufficient wind to do hull speed - even with an inefficient sail shape up front. So far, I've found this to be true - and many times I was glad to just let the genoa out when the wind dropped, instead of having to change anything. Gets pretty wild on the "pointy end" since the wind usually drops before the waves... Preference? I found the CDI with bearings to be almost the price of the Snap Furl. I liked the latter construction better plus the larger diameter drum makes a big difference when pulling it in. "Reefing" is exactly the same for both - wind the sail around an extrusion - so you can decide whether both actually "reef" or not. They both "reduce sail area" and facilitate balancing the boat in strong winds. It's all just one big compromise anyway... Chris
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