Jib downhaul and line routing

[Chester]

We've come to the conclusion that it is not fun if someone has to go forward in 30-40 knot winds to lower the jib, so we're looking into rigging a downhaul.

One oddity is that the PO installed blocks to run the jib halyard back to the cockpit, but the jib halyard is on the wrong side of the mast for this to work (see washed out attached photo). The rope clutch for the jib as labeled in the cockpit leads through an organizer to a block mounted just aft and to port of the mast. However, as we received our boat, the jib halyard is running through the starboard sheaves on top of the mast and it conflicts mightily with the main halyard if you route it this way. I'm assuming these can be swapped, but I'd rather not take the mast down again if I don't have to.

My thinking is this, why not install another block just aft and to starboard of the mast and run the jib halyard down the starboard handrail? I could then run a jib downhaul to a cleat on the starboard side, and using the existing port routing to put a downhaul on the main which has also shown a reluctance to drop on its own in heavy winds. If I went this route, I'd also need a deck organizer on the starboard side, but I've already got some spare cam cleats that I could use so the expense won't be terrible. I'm thinking I'd go with a 2 block organizer so I could later run something else, like a reefing line back to the same spot.

I've seen some other set ups where folks have run their jib downhaul back alongside the windows so that it doesn't have to run up to the cabin top. This is probably a best solution as it would prevent the downhaul from interfering with the jib sheets and our feet in the event we do have to go forward.

Any thoughts or suggestions? How have y'all solved similar problems on your own boats?

 

[Joe]

I think you're overthinking this.... it's possible to re reeve your halyards the way you want them by attaching messenger lines to the halyard end, pulling them out , re route the messenger to the other side using a piece of hooked wire to grab and pull to the other exit block.

As far as the jib downhaul.... a small block at the stem fitting. then a series of small blocks schackled to the stanchion bases will allow you to lead the downhaul line back to the cockpit to a small cleat on the coaming that won't interfere with the jib lead system. The largest line size I would use is 1/4".... but 3/16 is more than adequate. In the third pic you can see the red jib sheet.... to the right the tiny line is the jib downhaul on the coaming cleat.

Use a buntline hitch to tie the downhaul to the first piston hank.... not the headboard. If you tie it to the headboard the downhaul will fold it down when you pull and cause it to bind up the first hank on the headstay. I've learned this through my own mistakes.

The line runs along the stanchion base to the rear cleat on th coaming.... when the sail is down you can tie off the front of the line to the bow pulpit...the substantial rear portion can be coiled and stored in the coaming box. When you hoist the sail.... pull the downhaul coil out of the coaming box and flake it out so it will run free as the sail goes up.. don't for get to tie a stopper knot in the line to keep it from escaping the last block.


When you drop the sail....halyard in one hand the downhaul in the other...steer the boat with your knees, keeping the foredeck under the sail as you control the douse..... it should come down on the deck..... cleating off the downhaul will keep the sail..and the halyard....... under control.

One more thing you can do to make this process easier is to lace some small cord between deck and lifeline along the first couple of stanchion sections to help keep the sail contained.

 

[UPSGUY]

Thank you joe. I was about to rig a downhaul too and you gave me some great info.

 

[ShotgunSlim]

Dittos on the Thank you. I have scrounged up the hardware but haven't rigged anything up yet. I've been looking at other folks downhauls , trying to figure out the best way to do it on mine. I think we have a winner here!!

 

[Bilbo]

I believe that something that is kinda of a standard is to have the jib lines on Port and then the Main lines on Starboard side of the cabin. I used a block on the bow for my Jib downhaul and ran the line back beside the foredeck hatch up to the port deck organizer through a few fairleads. The fairleads work to keep the dowhaul from getting snagged, running freely and they also keep it close to the deck.This way my downhaul and halyard are side by side after the deck organizer. I don't think that the main needs a downhaul. The jib needs one because of the angle of the forestay which allows the jib to climb up the forestay in a headwind. If the line is closer to the rail, one may still snag it under foot or have one's foot roll on a line right at the rail. Not disagreeing with anybody as I think that it's a matter of preference. One thing that you don't want to do out on the bow is step on a line that can roll under your shoe or step on the sail material.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Put the jib halyard on the port side. Rig the downhaul as Joe mentioned. BUT, put the jib downhaul on the port side, too. This is important, because it will allow you to work both lines (halyard and downhaul) from the SAME side of the boat.

When it comes time to drop the jib, sail first on port tack and then heave to. Your jib will now be backed with the wind coming over the starboard bow. Then drop the jib using the downhaul. The jib, because of the orientation of the hanks and the wind direction, will fold itself nicely on the foredeck. All you have to do is roll it up!

 

[Joe]

Put the jib halyard on the port side. Rig the downhaul as Joe mentioned. BUT, put the jib downhaul on the port side, too. This is important, because it will allow you to work both lines (halyard and downhaul) from the SAME side of the boat.

When it comes time to drop the jib, sail first on port tack and then heave to. Your jib will now be backed with the wind coming over the starboard bow. Then drop the jib using the downhaul. The jib, because of the orientation of the hanks and the wind direction, will fold itself nicely on the foredeck. All you have to do is roll it up!

I ran my jib downhaul down the starboard side because I had already rigged a couple of fairleads for the furling unit that I have yet to install.. My boat's cockpit is much smaller than Stu's.... so I've found it convenient to have the downhaul out of the way on the starboard coaming.... left hand for the halyard... right for the downhaul.... knees for the tiller.... plenty of room on the rear part of the bench to flake out the coiled up line.... stuff it into the coaming box when not used.....

I also find that I don't need to head upwind to douse the jib when I have the convenience of the downhaul.... A very important advantage of this simple device..... running downwind I can drop the headsail in the shadow of the pushed out main.... steering the boat with my knees to keep the foredeck directly beneath the controlled drop.

Finally... the line size should be as small as possible... there is no heavy load on the line at all... I have 1/8" double braid dacron.... very inexpensive.. I wouldn't go any larger than 3/16... you'll never use it in the winch, offers little wind resistance and it makes the blocks and cleat cheaper. Also.... I've seen some guys try to thread the line up through the hanks....... no... don't waste your time... it will jam the hanks and it's too time consuming anyway. Just take the slack out after hoisting.... no too tight.. you don't want it interfering with your headstay tension.

 

[StanFM]

".... so I've found it convenient to have the downhaul out of the way on the starboard coaming.... left hand for the halyard... right for the downhaul.... knees for the tiller.... . "

So... then how do you hold your coffee??????

Stan

 

[Stu Jackson]

Two ways to skin the cat. If you're hove to, you don't have to worry about the tiller.

Then you have the hand for the coffee.

 

[jrowan]

Stan that's an intersting paint job on your C 22. Looks kida like a powerboat in that pic.
It's been years since I sailed a C-22, and my laast 3 boats have had roller furling jibs, so I tend to leave 'em up there. But if you really lube up your sheaves at the head of the mast, wouldn't it make it a lil easier to drop the jib? If the halyard moves freely it should work to pull the jib down. Although I understand that the angle of the jib makes it harder to do , if you're not up at the bow. I don't believe we ever rigged a down haul on our C 22. But it was new when we bought it, & maybe it had a lot less friction in the jib sail hanks cause they were new at the time. I agree that all control lines for the jib halyards and/or downhaul should always be on the port side of the mast, or they will get tangled with or confused with the main halyard. You shouldn't have to lower the mast to correct the problem. A bosun's chair raised by the main halyard will get u there. But that mast section is so small, its supposed to be desgned to amke it easier to raise & lower as a trailer sailor anyway. I don't know what's less of a pain, to lower the mast or go up it?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Good point about it being easier to drop than go up.

A downhaul is almost a necessity where we sail(ed) our C22 (San Francisco Bay, the Delta and Clear Lake, all windy venues). The jib simply doesn't drop when it's windy, and the downhaul is great to keep the sail on the foredeck.

If he wants one, he should install one and do it right, my way or Joe's would work equally well.

Pat Royce's Sailing Illustrated gave me the idea, and I post it here on a regular basis when folks ask about it.

 

[StanFM]

Stan that's an intersting paint job on your C 22. Looks kida like a powerboat in that pic.

I'm intruding on this topic. So sorry. The hull begs to be repainted. It almost looks like house paint up close! The boat shop owner tells me not to worry about it-- the boat is not worth repainting. But to get rid of the old painted-on large lettering, I painted an "Evenrude-ish" stripe down the sides and relettered it. The stern lettering was huge. That'll hold it for now.

Stan

 

[Chris Patterson]

I will go slightly off topic here and say, (because safety concerns are important to me), but there is no way anybody could talk me up a mast on a 22. Especially one with a few years on it. I say this from a person that has been aloft countless times, even underway. Used to climb mountains and skydive. It's fair to say that heights fear me little. But not on a 22 foot boat, oh lord..

I built a crutch that fastens in the gudgeons, (and the weight is supported across the transom), that is high enough for the mast to come down without touching the sliding cover on the coachroof. And by myself, I let it down, and up periodically. I built a gin-pole, but that silly thing is a waste of time to me. Seems like forever I have to adjust something up top, or a damn dodo bird sits on my windex and bends it..

 

[jrowan]

I'll agree with that. I personally HATE going up aloft on a mast & would only go up on a boat with rigging that I obviously entrusted my life to. Honestly, to me that's one thing that's well worth paying someone else to do. Plus the rigger can evaluate the fittings, etc while he's already up there. The C 22 is a lil' weak in the rigging dept. I recall. But that's why I mentioned why not just lower it, as its supposed to be done on a regular basis anyway on a trailor - sailor design?

 

[Joe]

Two ways to skin the cat. If you're hove to, you don't have to worry about the tiller.

Then you have the hand for the coffee.

heh, heh.... well Stu, heaving to would mean I wouldn't need to steer with my knees.... but I'd still need both hands to operate the downhaul and halyard.

I guess my point is you don't need to heave to, or head upwind to drop the headsail with a downhaul rigged...... you just pull it down in the shadow of the main if you going down wind.

 

[Stu Jackson]

OK, Joe, try this: He should do it going downwind on starboard tack. His main and jib would be to port, and his jib would still fold properly on the foredeck. Of course, he'd have to have overtrimmed his jib to keep it on deck and keeping it from flying forward into the water.

 

[Joe]

".... so I've found it convenient to have the downhaul out of the way on the starboard coaming.... left hand for the halyard... right for the downhaul.... knees for the tiller.... . "

So... then how do you hold your coffee??????

Stan

Uh...in the cup holder, where it belongs.. heh,heh. or you could invest in a camelback if you're that addicted.

 

[Joe]

OK, Joe, try this: He should do it going downwind on starboard tack. His main and jib would be to port, and his jib would still fold properly on the foredeck. Of course, he'd have to have overtrimmed his jib to keep it on deck and keeping it from flying forward into the water.

Okay, I'll try that if you'll give my way a try too. Unless you have a wheel...tough to get your knees around a wheel.... If you steer the boat's foredeck into the shadow of the main, the headsail will not spill forward... it will simply fall straight down.... as far as being perfectly folded... probably not, but good enough to roll up, disconnect and stow...

 

[Bilbo]

I guess my point is you don't need to heave to, or head upwind to drop the headsail with a downhaul rigged...... you just pull it down in the shadow of the main if you going down wind.

Interesting but one issue is that the main is too high to blanket the jib fully at the foot and the jib could likely end up over the water in that scenario. I also prefer to drop the main first. If the winds aren't high and I only have a 110 flying, I can pull the clew across to the windward side with the windward jib sheet and then drop the jib.<Not possible with a 150 Genny though.

 

[Joe]

Interesting but one issue is that the main is too high to blanket the jib fully at the foot and the jib could likely end up over the water in that scenario. I also prefer to drop the main first. If the winds aren't high and I only have a 110 flying, I can pull the clew across to the windward side with the windward jib sheet and then drop the jib.<Not possible with a 150 Genny though.

Have you actually tried it? I've been doing if for years on my C27... the wind doesn't rush under the main as you suggest.... besides your sheet controls the lower part of the sail and the downhaul will control the rest.

As far as dropping the main first..... that's another discussion... but we were talking about the advantages of the jib downhaul....I especially like it because I can drop the jib on the foredeck going downwind without going forward.

Stu's suggestion to heave to is certainly a good way to do it....but you may not always want to turn upwind just to drop the headsail... your intention may be to change headsails... a spinnaker or drifter for instance. In which case you don't need to add extra maneuvers..