Jib conversion; Is it realistic?

Joe · Jun 25, 2014

For a boat your size, you could use a lighter weight, less expensive hank such as this twist-on by Ronstan. It also minimizes the size hole you'd have to make in the sail... since you only need to accommodate the screw... instead of installing a large grommet for the heavier piston style hank.

Brian S · Jun 25, 2014

Jerry, is it your Schaefer furling drum unit that is damaged? The Schaefer units were pretty well reviled. However, having a furling headsail can be very nice. Just know that a wire luff furling headsail can't be reefed. If you still want to use the sail as a furling sail, and it is indeed your existing furler that is damaged, you could replace it with something like a Harken small boat furler: http://www.harken.com/productcategory.aspx?taxid=535

Joe · Jun 26, 2014

Jerry Shenkman said:
Thank you. Where do I buy these? Also, can I install them over the luff wire?

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=ronstan+twist+on+jib+hanks

Yes.... you'll have to get the size that fits your forestay wire...... can't help you there.. you're on your own.

Brian S · Jun 26, 2014

Jerry, the 192 came stock with the Schaefer furler for the 110% jib. The drum mounts to the U bolt mounted through the deck just behind the stemhead fitting. Then, the jib halyard hoists the jib with the swivel at the top. This is why they have a winch mounted on the port side of the mast - it's an attempt to get the jib luff somewhat tight.

I had heard that most Scheafer furlers broke at some point, or didn't work too well to begin with. I sailed with mine for about a month after I bought the boat, but I didn't care for it, because my halyards were tired polyester double braid, I could never get it tight, and the jib was original, so was pretty blown out. Since my boat came with a newer hank-on jib, that's what I've been using instead. After I replaced the running rigging with Vectran cored 1/4" (total overkill, but more money than brains…), sure, I probably could have got that luff tighter, but now I'm using that hank on exclusively, and I have a downhaul rigged and a deck bag, so it's not a horrible setup. This year, I took off the winch so that I could make room to put on a swiveling cam cleat for the asym spinnaker halyard. Makes for easier takedowns than the horn cleat mounted above the gooseneck…

If I ever go furling again, it will be a Scheafer Snapfurl with a 135% genoa with foam luff, reef point reinforcements in leech and foot, and Sunbrealla strips. Gosh, that setup adds up quickly $$$, and then I'd have to figure out where in the world to mount jib track. One guy I know has it down his side decks (ick) and another has it along the edge of the cabin top, so that it looks like an eyebrow over the windows. Not sure if it's long enough in that position.

Have been considering removing the fixed jib sheet fairlead block in the middle of the cabin top, and replacing with a 12" strip of jib track, so that I can control jib twist and power better, but for right now, she sails ok and I'm tired of fix up projects

Any jib track would involve "potting" the deck with epoxy to protect the core. Just another time consuming and annoying job. Might be easier to consider if I had a garage to work on the boat in the off season...

Oh, shoot, there was a very nice writeup of the 192 in Small Craft Advisor a couple years ago. I should scan that for you… It's where I got my avatar picture...

Brian S · Jun 26, 2014

Yeah, sure. You can sail a wire luff jib without the drum furler. My GP14 uses a wire luff jib with a multipart purchase system to tension the halyard, and thus the jib luff. In fact, on racing GP14s, the forestay is simply lashed to the stemhead fitting with a length of cord, and serves only to hold the mast up. It relies totally on the wire luff jib and halyard to tension the rig. When the rig it tensioned, in my case with a "Magic Box," the forestay hangs slack. (A magic box is essentially an 8:1 pulley system mounted in an aluminum box, such that the purchase slides along the box. Somewhat out of favor due to greater friction to overcome, so that you may not actually get 8:1 http://www.apsltd.com/c-555-rwo-magic-boxes.aspx)

If that old Schaefer drum is broken, remove it and the swivel at the head of the jib, just shackle the tack to the U bolt, tension the heck out of the halyard, and it should sail fine.

Anonymous 121765 · Jun 26, 2014

Jerry,

Congrats on your new boat.

About your headsail pal, my first boat was a Catalina 22. I had a hank-on jibs. After two years of raising, lowering & securing the sail to the foredeck, I swore I would never have another boat with a hank on.

Bow action on a smaller sailboat can at times be a real bear when dropping & securing the jib especially in weather and/or wave action. If the furler is good & the sail repairable, this may be the better way to go. If a new sail is required, I would still rather have a furling sail. They make it alot easier & safer on a smaller boat.

CR

Brian S · Jun 26, 2014

But further to Captn Ron, wrestling a jib down on the foredeck doesn't have to happen. I have rigged a downhaul for my hank on, I can pull the jib down to the deck, cleat it in place so it doesn't sail back up the forestay, and cleating off both sheets keeps it pretty well controlled until I can get back to the dock to put away in the deck bag properly.

But, yeah, I'd love to have a reefing furling 135%...

Anonymous 121765 · Jun 27, 2014

Brian,

I agree with you that having a hank-down line is the smart way to go for your jib. But not having an autopilot made it scary at times.

What I was emphasizing, was the point of having to work the foredeck. I remember times working with a wet deck in wind & sometimes hobby-horsing conditions. I would find myself on a slippery pitching bow, doing the bungee tie-down for lashing the sail to the stanchions & lifelines. I remember almost going o'board a few times.

This was what changed my mind. I sailed solo alot back then & would rig my tiller bungee autopilot to give me a running start to the bow, hoping to lash the sail before she veered off the wind.

I'm sure you've experienced these types of conditions. My opinion was formed on my
C22. Some don't mind this, I know I didn't like it. In fact, this was what made me go to a bigger boat with furling.

CR

Brian S · Jun 27, 2014

Oh, yes Ron, I totally get your point about avoiding the foredeck on a small boat.

I have a Wave Front Marine Tiller Clutch on my tiller, which absolutely gives me enough time to pull down the jib, or to hove-to so I can get to the mast to reef. On my little boat, I'm able to stand in the companionway to cast off the jib halyard while pulling down the outhaul to get the jib down.

I'm not a big fan of lines led aft on a small boat, but I know people who have halyards led aft on boats like Precision 18s and West Wight Potter 19s. Sure, you may be able to cast off and hoist from the cockpit, but what happens if the sail is light enough to bind on a takedown, but you're still in the cockpit? I know there are endless debates about lines at the mast, or led aft, so I don't feel the need to rehash any of that. But I find going to the mast for reefing works for me, and having the jib downhaul is a good "poor man's" headsail furler

And I still would love to get a 135% genoa on a reefing furler….

Someday I might not be nimble enough to work the mast for this stuff...

Anonymous 121765 · Jun 27, 2014

Brian,

Well said pal. Remember the saying about boats, "It's always a compromise".

CR

Doc_holiday · Jun 28, 2014

I have hank on jibs and hate it. It's a Mac 26s. I do have a haul down, tiller tamer and an autopilot (use one or the other. When solo, I head into the wind, haul down the jib from the cockpit. Then I pull the sheets tight and go below. I open the front hatch and put a sail tie on the jib. A furler would be easier but I won't waste money on one I can't reef.

When I go out I do all the hacking and sheeting before I leave the slip. My halyard is run back to the cockpit. This makes it easier but still a pain compared to a furler.

Anonymous 121765 · Jun 28, 2014

Doc,

That's what I was trying to tell the guys in my posts. Been there did that.

I remember running back-n-forth & at times would also do the forward hatch sail stuffing.
Using your tiller tamer, how many times did your boat veer off before you could get completely setup?

Having to rush in managing your jib can be a pain. Sure, you have a downhaul line but, if suddenly veering off, makes for fast moving trips back-n-forth to lash your sail.

I will promise you one thing, if deciding to add a furler. You will say to yourself that first time out, "Why didn't I do this last year". You will be happy you did.

A simple furler doesn't have to cost that much. I've seen used systems for sale on the net. Please Don't buy a continuous line furler, as you will have to attach extra blocks on the other side & be working with a line twice as long as you need.

CR

Stu Jackson · Jun 28, 2014

captnron said:
I will promise you one thing, if deciding to add a furler. You will say to yourself that first time out, "Why didn't I do this last year". You will be happy you did.
CR

Ron's right. It's like ATMs and microwave ovens. :dance:

If you don't have the $ now, at least use a jib downhaul, sail on port tack closehauled, heave to and drop the jib right on the deck. It'll flake itself because of the direction of the hanks and then all you do is roll it up and put it in the bag.

Doc_holiday · Jun 28, 2014

Pardon my ignorance. So when you say port tack close hauled that's with the wind coming over the port bow, I think. Ok don't you backwind the jib in a heave to? Which way is the main and which way does the rudder go?

Unless the wind is dead, I use the motor to keep forward movement (rudder doing work). But yes it has fallen off wind many a time before I was done. The autohelm helps a lot. But to your point all this is effort you wouldn't have to with a furling