Jib cars slapping

[gkmoore]

Hello all, been a while since I posted, have been enjoying sailing the boat this summer after doing work on it last winter. When I use my 110 jib, the jib cars appear to be placed best near the aft end of the inboard track. However, in this position when the sail luffs, the car slaps against the side of the cabin terribly. Any good ideas on this, or is this just the way it is?

 

[Jackdaw]

Uhhh... Don't let it luff??

Trust me, it's worse for the sail than it is for the cars.

 

[gkmoore]

Ya' know, I kinda expected that reply. But I like to take novices out and let them handle the tiller, etc and it inevitably happens....

 

[CloudDiver]

Do the blocks have stand up springs? I've seen plenty of headsail lead blocks that either don't have them at all, or if they do they are improperly sized, incorrectly installed, old and weak, etc... I am assuming your tracks are inboard, I guess that's an occupational hazard.
Are you sure the position of lead car is best all the way back for a 110 Jib? Sounds like the tracks themselves may be installed too far forward. Think of it this way, if the ideal position is that far back for a 110 then you have no room left to move farther back if you fly a 130 or a 150.

 

[gkmoore]

Yes they have stand up springs and are on inboard tracks. I fly my 150 on the outboard tracks, but the 110 points better on the inboard tracks. I didn't know if there was some way to pad the side of the block or cabin when the slap. This doesn't occur often, but sounds like you are banging the side of the cabin with a hammer. Probably either quit allowing the newbies to take the helm (which I won't do) or learn to live with it. I was just wondering if others had this experience and a simple solution. When I began sailing the boat the cars were forward, and woudn't hit anything, but the jib sheet angle was wrong in that position.

 

[Jacktar]

Pictures might help in figuring this one out, normally as noted the 110 car position should be further forward than the 150 spot, might be the cut of the jib itself and sheet angle, check if really a catalina cut?

 

[Jacktar]

Just saying cause my genoa drove me nuts till I looked at it found it was an Oday, recut for few bucks at sailmaker and now it sheets just fine.

 

[Joe]

Either get stronger springs for you existing block, tie the top of the block off to a life line or shroud with a piece of shock cord or light line that will keep it from falling over, or invest in a new system.

My first choice would be to get stronger springs.

Just to clarify, the block falls over when there is no tension on sheet, correct? Then you need a very robust method of keeping it in place. Tying it off may be necessary if you can't find a stronger spring.

 

[gkmoore]

The springs seem ok, stand up when no load, but maybe they are tired and don't do well when the jib sheet starts flapping. I will try to get pix this weekend if possible. I set the jib sheet angle as described in several posts on this forum, and it appears the car needs to be pretty far back to get the right angle. It (jib block) bangs against the cabin side with a ferocity that makes you think it will crack the cabin. I'm still trying to get everything adjusted and set on this boat, every sail finds something I want or need to tweak.

 

[All U Get]

Just a short shock cord (bungee) from the top of the block to the life line. Then try your hand at soft shackles.

All U Get

I see Joe's picture, no place to attach a bungee.

 

[All U Get]

I am trying out the low friction ring to do what you described. I don't have an inner track so I'll use the loop on a purchase point.

All U Get

 

[CaptDon01]

Sounds like a previous owner installed the inboard tracks for racing. Getting to that windward mark was the only concern..... Why not just use the original outboard tracks? You're obviously not racing, so it's a decision between gelcoat repair and being able to point ever so slightly higher...... What's more important?

Jib car block placement determine the amount of twist at the top of the jib. Moving back pulls on the foot allowing the top of the leech to twist and dump the wind. Forward placement pulls on the leech, eliminating the twisting. Being a jib guy, (I know, hard to believe I don't even own a genoa), my cars are normally fully forward.

Don

 

[gkmoore]

Don, thanks for the input. This boat was used to race, so I'll try the jib on the two different tracks some day on the lake and compare. I felt it pointed much better on the inboard tracks, but that was two different weekends (inboard vs. outboard) so I'll try to compare both during a sail and see how it performs.

 

[CaptDon01]

Don, thanks for the input. This boat was used to race, so I'll try the jib on the two different tracks some day on the lake and compare. I felt it pointed much better on the inboard tracks, but that was two different weekends (inboard vs. outboard) so I'll try to compare both during a sail and see how it performs.

Oh absolutely in theory the boat potentially will point higher the closer the jib tracks are to the center of the boat, no argument there. But the reality is that most of us will never know the difference, just too many variables, and as for me? comfort and not beating up my boat takes precedence.

Don

 

[Joe]

The springs seem ok, stand up when no load, but maybe they are tired and don't do well when the jib sheet starts flapping. .

Then you definitely need a more robust spring. I have a set of leads for my spin sheets like the ones I pictured previously.... you cannot bend them over without pushing very hard.... and there is not way they would "flop".... The stronger spring is the most cost effective solution.

 

[Benny17441]

The best course of action is to replace the springs. In the meantime you can wrap shock cord around the fixture to restrict the travel.

 

[gkmoore]

Joe and Benny, thanks; I'm going to the lake this evening, will see what size springs I need. I also hope to get some pictures of the blocks/cars, and perhaps pictures of the jib up showing the angle of the sheet so I can get some feedback on car placement.

 

[gkmoore]

Here are some pictures of my tracks as well as pictures of the sail. the first picture with the sail is on the inboard track, the second is on the outboard track. Any opinions on the jib car placements for the sheet angle?

 

[CloudDiver]

Here are some pictures of my tracks as well as pictures of the sail. the first picture with the sail is on the inboard track, the second is on the outboard track. Any opinions on the jib car placements for the sheet angle?

Someone set that boat up for racing, that's why you have a block w/ cleat rather than a winch... it also set father forward than the winch would be and that changes your potential sheet angles. The inboard track is pretty far forward for the same reason, I doubt that even with the 110 Jib that the car would go that far forward. @Jackdaw posted a basic formula for measuring and determining optimal sheet angle/jib-car placement. I don't remember what thread it was in but hopefully he will chime in and post the link to that thread.
Depending on what type of sailing you plan to do, you may want to consider going 'back' to winches in the traditional position. If you are in fact racing, run what ya got!

 

[CaptDon01]

The jib tracks allow you to adjust where the tension will be, which affects the sail shape for the conditions you are sailing in, and the point of sail that you're on. Kind of like saying, how does the position of the rudder look? Depends on if you're going straight, or turning port or starboard. When the sheet tension is on the leech of the sail, the jib car is forward, this pulls more on the leech of the sail for pointing, and you get the whole sail in a nice curved shape. Now, let's keep on the same point of sail, and the wind picks up, and the boat is healing more, and your First Mate's eyes are looking concerned, as you move the jib block back, the tension now transfers to the foot of the sail, this will allow the top of the sail to twist and spill the air off the top portion of the sail, which takes away some of the power, but also helps to ease the healing of the boat, and stops scaring your First Mate.

Like Luke said, depends on how you intend to use the boat. The previous owner was obviously a serious racer, and set the boat up for his preferences.

Hope that helps......

Don