Jaded by positive information .......

[woodster]

....I have had the displeasure of witnessing two attempts at a motor mount and shaft alignment in the past 6 weeks.......
the first attempt was on a hunter 36....yard mechanic (that's what they called him)
first off he acquired new mounts for the owner and then proceed to install them ....stated that the rear engine brackets that bolt to the engine were bent and had to straighten them with heat ...
second he had wedges cut for the bead rails and incorporated them in the repair.......after he got all that in he then bought a shaft saver to the tune of 400 dollars and install that ...then he told the owner the work was ready ....we went to the launch site to put in back in the water and found the prop shaft painted with bottom paint all the way to the new cutlass rearing including filling the flutes with bottom paint ......i told the owner that had to come off before launch or he wouldn't make it across the bay without burning up the new bearing ...no way would water pass through the bearing ...after scraping the paint off and digging out the flutes ....i found that the shaft was in a bind in the lower front and the upper rear of the shaft strut to the point the bearing was not letting the prop turn without using two hands and considerable force to rotate the prop in neutral...so i went up in the boat and jacked up the rear mounts in an attempt to free things up....... the owner was not willing to cancel the launch and make the yard lick their calf over...this is so disgusting to me......how can people be this nonchalant about things like this especially when his yard bill was 5 grand is beyond me........
the second repair was finally to straighten out the first in the water...this mechanic broke the shaft loose from the clutch coupling and when he did the whole assembly sprang up ...now he adjusted this fiasco by eyeballing the faces and leaving the shaft saver in the mix ......this whole horror story has really been grinding on me...... have i gotten jaded by knowing too much about the proper way this should have been done ...do i need to chill out and take a devil may care attitude ...maybe on someone else's boat but not mine .......
the reason i am telling this story is to give all here a wakeup call about having a yard do your work without knowing what you are paying for and just leaving it up to the yard ,,,,this site has given me some of the best info anyone could have ...if you don't know what is going on with your boat you should ...and i know no better place to get educated than here ...this information here is better than a 10 year apprenticeship of work for a yard ..... so don't let the yards out there bs you and having you second guess the knowledge you receive here ........

 

[Stu Jackson]

the reason i am telling this story is to give all here a wakeup call about having a yard do your work without knowing what you are paying for and just leaving it up to the yard ,,,,t

Darn, you are so, so, so right!!!

It really busts my gut when people say: I don't know nuttin' about elektrisity. They simply refuse to learn. If you don't KNOW what it is you want, how can you know if the yard monkey did ANYTHING right?

but electric is not my thing

WADR, this is nonsense. It's time to read up.

None of us was born an electrician. Those of us who cared about our own safety and those of our families and guests, either learned, or as others have suggested, got qualified marine electricians, to repair our boats.

Most of us learned, because when you're "out there" there aren't any tow trucks. You're on your own.

Tough love perhaps, but true.

Don't mess with sparks, they could kill you, sink your boat, start a fire and burn your boat and your neighbors' boats, too.

Sorry to be blunt, but this "elekricity is scary to me" attitude and approach is, well, truly scary to me. I see it all over internet boating forums.

There is no excuse to NOT learn this stuff. Actually, it's pretty simple.

Charlie Wing's book, Boatowners Illustrated Electrical Handbook, is a very good start for you. There is also a TON of electrical material on the internet, most of it very trustworthy, like Maine Sail's website and this: Electrical Systems 101 http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5977.0.html (link is external)

Look, not everyone knows how to physically DO stuff. But EVERYONE should be able to figure out what NEEDS to be done. If one has gone that far, then checking what HAS been done shouldn't be that hard. What the hell do you do in your house?

Why should your boat be any different. It ain't magic!

I spent the day thoroughly cleaning my dodger. My new dockmate spent her day in her engine room in her new-to-her boat. She KNOWS boat electrical systems. Her conclusion? How the F did the PO run this boat for the 8 years he had it? Without blowing it up (gas engine, beautiful Chris Craft 32)?

10 connections to the engine solenoid. 8 connections to one battery, 7 to the other. Negatives connected to positives. Weird 1-2-B switch connections.

But the PO was "very happy" with ALL the work that had been done, since the boat worked!!!

Holy Cow, Batman!

Please folks, and especially you newbies, we're so very glad you found this website.

If you've chosen to go boating as hobby or a lifestyle, you OWE it to yourself, your friends and your family, to learn as much as you possibly can. And when you start learning, buy the TOOLS you need to use to do things right the first time. And don't depend on the yard monkeys, 'cuz most of them are just that: monkeys who spend your money for things you have to re-do once you finally realize how they've truly F-ed you & your pocketbook. Heck, many of us survived "pre-internet" and how anybody can claim "ignorance" these days is simply beyond me.

Thanks, Woody, for those very pertinent observations.

 

[GorillaToast]

Nice rant, Stu!

 

[Stu Jackson]

Nice rant, Stu!

GT, thank Woody, too. His was superb.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

...if you don't know what is going on with your boat you should

I truly feel sorry for responsible people, with boats, who are forced to rely on yard apes. Because it's NOT just a case of getting out there and learning it off the internet from sites like this one. Some people simply cannot understand how an engine, or a pump, or a solenoid works let alone how to align an engine to a prop shaft. "Is my engine working properly with that loud knocking ?" They don't even know if that loud knocking is right or wrong let alone how to find it and repair it, god bless 'em.

I'll bet everyone here has ONE area in life in which they are utterly hopeless. Let me get near my company's taxes back when things were hopping and I'll show you the definition of "screw-up". How many people have two, three, or more divorces ? Can't choose the right partner maybe ........ your close friends sure knew they wouldn't work out. That's just how hopeless some people are at mechanical things on a boat. And it's these poor people who are fodder for yard apes. Without them, yard apes would have gone extinct years ago.

I don't have an answer for these poor souls other than to find a good reliable mechanic and get set to pay the bills.

 

[Stu Jackson]

other than to find a good reliable mechanic

That's the trick, the ONE that Woody brought up.

HOW do you know?

I had a yard monkey insist that he install a looped 1 5/8" hose into my muffler, when I said "Here's a straight hump hose, please use it." He wouldn't. A week later the loop he installed rubbed against itself and almost self-destructed.

Lesson learned.

The entire point of forums like this is to try to help others avoid these kind of situations and not have to reinvent the wheel.

 

[jssailem]

I found this site when the BMW (boat marina worker) who came with 'see him on the docks working on boats' reputation and assurances ' I have worked on all kinds of diesel motors' could not identify the fluid spraying all over the engine was a water pump seal failure. The fan belt was loose because the alternator had only two of three bolts partially tightened. Might be the reason the motor was over heating and the battery was not holding a charge.

You guys motivated me to learn my engine. I'm knowledge, confidence, and money ahead. Thanks.

 

[Kermit]

I realized recently how little I know about outboards. When mine wouldn't crank I called another sailing club member. One of his suggestions was to spray starting fluid in the carburetor. My response was that first I need to figure out where the carburetor is and what it looks like.

And y'all wonder why I'm all jokes and no advice.

 

[woodster]

One of his suggestions was to spray starting fluid in the carburetor.

well if you think you are funny now spray that stuff in your carb and see what happens.....don't ever use that stuff to start your engine ......you might very well be sorry ...if it ran without starting fluid before then it should run again without it ....find and fix the problem even if it takes longer that you expect.......

 

[Kermit]

Oh, I figured it out. Turns out it was so hot that day that using the choke was the problem. It started pretty quickly after I tried without the choke. So now I know that choke isn't necessary in the summer. Even after sitting a few days.

I'm googling books on outboard motor repair even as we speak. Any suggestions?

 

[woodster]

now days they are not much different than a car engine with the 4 stroke.......get one on your specific brand and model and you should be good to go.......i love diesels the best because there is no electrics to make them run ...a gas engine has to have electric in the mix and that adds about 10 more things to have to say grace over

 

[jssailem]

10 more things to have to say grace over

Woodster your sure you say grace over the engine? I say grace be for a meal. The engine is more like "Hey get up and go!". Guess you southern boys are just more genteel.

 

[woodster]

maybe i should have said cuss over

 

[jssailem]

I try not to cuss, too much. Banging my kuckles on a stubborn bolt has been known to excite my vocabulary.

 

[Justin_NSA]

I'm still working on this -

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert A. Heinlein

 

[kito]

After reading this, I am sure glad I have done 100% of my H30 renovation myself. Granted, I didn't know a lot at first but took the time to learn what to do instead of relying on these so-called professionals. At least I know exactly what has been done on my boat and have trust in my own workmanship.

 

[Ron20324]

[QUOTE="Kermit, So now I know that choke isn't necessary in the summer. Even after sitting a few days...[/QUOTE]

I keep the choke on when not using the motor to keep critters out, whether a screen on the carb or not(Honda).

 

[JamesG161]

And y'all wonder why I'm all jokes and no advice.

Nope!
But we all need a good laugh.

I have owned my boat for 2.2 years now.

I turned to the Admiral after 14 months and did a "popeye the sailor" bicep display and said...

"I am finally the Master of Our Boat"

It took 18 owner's/service manuals, full set of boat tools, spare parts, repairs, this forum, tech phone calls, doing inventory sorting (psssttt my son-in-law owned his own boat repair yard for many years).

I bet if we all pooled our experiences, knowledge, and yes even jokes. together into a book, we might all make a $.
Jim...

PS: @woodster you even need a scientific engineer type, once in a while too.

 

[jssailem]

So James. Now that you've climbed the mountain, how is the Admiral reacting when you smile at that sweet looking 50 footer as she slips from her dock and slides through the marina?

 

[Gunni]

I take a somewhat contrary view. And I know less than nothing about 'Lectricity - I know enough to make me dangerous. And that is the problem I see with owners who do their own work, or worse, attempt to direct marine professionals from a position of ignorance. In my experience it all comes down to money. The owner either can't afford the pros (think Maine Sail), or want to influence a less expensive fix. There is no shortage of Rummys hanging about the yards looking to take a few dollars from these owners. The real pros are booked, especially during season, and the prioritize their good clients. And make no mistake, the pros will avoid you if you behave like an uninformed Newb with a predictable tendency to ask for cut-corners, and work that the pro knows is substandard. Nothing worse than having shoddy work carry your good name and reputation on it.

In my view finding, retaining and getting good boat work is like painting - 90% preparation, 10% actual work. You start by becoming basically proficient in how marine propulsion systems work, how they quit working, and which maintenance tasks are critical and how they work together. Then, with enough understanding to ASK, and LISTEN to the opinions and advice of other owners, Yard Pontificators, perky yard shop receptionists, Some Guy on the Internets, and finally a short list of credentialed marine professionals you come to understand the confluence of proper marine propulsion maintenance / repair, and cost. It is a lot of work, and it can cost a lot more than you thought it would because, well, you really don't know what it should cost, you just know what your budget is.

Boats, big sailboats are expensive, complicated systems. If you don't properly maintain them they degrade into frustrating, unreliable dock queens unable to full fill that dream of freedom and adventure that propelled you to buy one. So before you buy one, take the time to create a clear-eyed to budget not just for purchase cost, but the cost to go to Boat School, and the cost to pay marine professionals to keep her safe and reliable. Oh, and Boat School is a Ph.D. Program, so if you don't take to learning very well, consider a small runabout on a trailer.