2003 Beneteau 473. Aft head: standard Jabsco 29090 manual; forward: standard Jabsco electric 37010. Problem: both heads now (not first few seasons) back leak waste water (or worse) into the bowl. Electric head was rebuilt with rebuild kit, including new joker valve. Aft head was replaced with new head. Although new, the joker valve and base valve gasket were replaced, as advised by Jabsco technician. After further calls to Jabsco, a representative asked: "Is this a Beneateau? Beneteau plumbs their boats in a way that prevents successful use of these Jabsco heads" (they are factory original equipment, and worked fine for three years). The only solution we have found is to leave all through hulls closed, and to leave the Y-valve on "Sea," and only change it to "Tank" when we flush the head, and then after completely clearing the waste line with excessive flushing, immediately return the Y-valve to "Sea." Because we flush with fresh water, we leave the through hulls closed all the time, unless we are far enough off shore to flush directly into the sea. Two of my friends with Catalina 42s have developed the same problem. One replaced one head with a Raritan PHII, which eliminated the problem. Is our only solution to get rid of the Jabsco heads? Thank you.
Jabsco heads back filling
- Thread starter Gary Eglinton
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I smell your pain.
I have been dealing with a similar issue on a friend's Endeavor 32' with a Groco HF head. I applied the maintenance kit (joker valve etc) and we shall see how that works. To reduce the stink overall I hope you are using KO, and only KO as your tank treatment as Peggy reccommends. It almost makes this stuff smell good. Leaving your 'Y' valve set to "Sea" is not a great idea. If the CG ever boards you you may end up with a problem. The LIS and Chesapeake are both no-discharge zones. From the CG Colregs: "No Discharge Zones Operation in EPA designated No Discharge Zones affects the MSD installation on every vessel that enters or stays in those waters. Flow-through devices are permitted if adequately secured to prevent discharges of any sewage, treated or untreated. Closing the seacock and padlocking, using a non-releasable wire-tie, removing the seacock handle would be sufficient means of securing. Locking the door to the head with a padlock or a door handle key lock is another acceptable method of securing the MSD while in a No Discharge Zone" In other words, you do not actually have to pump this waste over the side to get in trouble. Here is further food for thought: "Illegal Discharges If the effluent from a shipboard MSD does not meet the EPA criterion, the vessel operator is subject to a civil penalty of up to $2000 for each violation under section 1322(j) of the FWPCA. This is true whether or not all of the manufacturer's instructions were being followed, since the law states that the device must not only be certified, but also be "operable". If the vessel operator were strictly following all of the certified operating instructions for the MSD, this would be taken into consideration when determining the gravity of the violation. In fact, the device itself may be investigated to determine why is was not capable of meeting the EPA effluent quality standard and the manufacturer might be in violation of section 312(g)(1) of the FWPCA which requires that all MSDs be "... in all material respects substantially the same as a test device certified under this subsection." The maximum penalty for violation of this subsection is $5000 for each violation." In short, you should get this situation sorted out. Good luck.
I have been dealing with a similar issue on a friend's Endeavor 32' with a Groco HF head. I applied the maintenance kit (joker valve etc) and we shall see how that works. To reduce the stink overall I hope you are using KO, and only KO as your tank treatment as Peggy reccommends. It almost makes this stuff smell good. Leaving your 'Y' valve set to "Sea" is not a great idea. If the CG ever boards you you may end up with a problem. The LIS and Chesapeake are both no-discharge zones. From the CG Colregs: "No Discharge Zones Operation in EPA designated No Discharge Zones affects the MSD installation on every vessel that enters or stays in those waters. Flow-through devices are permitted if adequately secured to prevent discharges of any sewage, treated or untreated. Closing the seacock and padlocking, using a non-releasable wire-tie, removing the seacock handle would be sufficient means of securing. Locking the door to the head with a padlock or a door handle key lock is another acceptable method of securing the MSD while in a No Discharge Zone" In other words, you do not actually have to pump this waste over the side to get in trouble. Here is further food for thought: "Illegal Discharges If the effluent from a shipboard MSD does not meet the EPA criterion, the vessel operator is subject to a civil penalty of up to $2000 for each violation under section 1322(j) of the FWPCA. This is true whether or not all of the manufacturer's instructions were being followed, since the law states that the device must not only be certified, but also be "operable". If the vessel operator were strictly following all of the certified operating instructions for the MSD, this would be taken into consideration when determining the gravity of the violation. In fact, the device itself may be investigated to determine why is was not capable of meeting the EPA effluent quality standard and the manufacturer might be in violation of section 312(g)(1) of the FWPCA which requires that all MSDs be "... in all material respects substantially the same as a test device certified under this subsection." The maximum penalty for violation of this subsection is $5000 for each violation." In short, you should get this situation sorted out. Good luck.
Same Problem
We had the same problem with our Hunter 37.5 this year. After replacing the pump, joker value and base value gasket I finally removed the old head, flushed all lines to insure everything was clear and installed a new Jabsco head. It now seems to be working the way it use to work. I'll find out tomorrow when I go to the boat. Down here in this heat you will stink up your boat real quite if your head is back flowing. Can't tell you why it works now and didn't before except that the new pump may have been defective. We also do not use the seacock but rather flush with only fresh water. Learned that the hard way. Tom S/V At Last
We had the same problem with our Hunter 37.5 this year. After replacing the pump, joker value and base value gasket I finally removed the old head, flushed all lines to insure everything was clear and installed a new Jabsco head. It now seems to be working the way it use to work. I'll find out tomorrow when I go to the boat. Down here in this heat you will stink up your boat real quite if your head is back flowing. Can't tell you why it works now and didn't before except that the new pump may have been defective. We also do not use the seacock but rather flush with only fresh water. Learned that the hard way. Tom S/V At Last
Check your tank vent for a blockage
If the tank vent is blocked, air in the tank displaced by incoming waste has nowhere to go...so the tank becomes pressurized, creating backpressure that prevents bowl contents from going very far...instead, they go back to the bowl. The most common places for vent blockages to occur are the vent thru-hull and the connection to the tank...both the tank vent fitting and that end of the vent line. So check the thru-hull...scrape out whatever you find with a screwdriver blade. If there's a screen in it, knock it out...screens cause more problems than they solve. Then remove the vent line from the tank...scrape out whatever you find in the fitting and that end of the tank. If that doesn't solve your problem, remove the head discharge hose from the toilet and check it for sea water mineral buildup...I've seen it reduce the diameter of a 1.5" hose to less than .5". Or, you could have a clog. But based on the amount of water you say you're using to keep the line clear, that's unlikely. My money is on the tank vent. None of the above should be considered to recommend against replacing your Jabsco toilets with PH IIs. Not only is the PH II FAR better quality, but the Raritan tech support people have actually heard of holding tanks and vent lines...something no one at Jabsco apparently has...which says a lot, 'cuz anyone who's been in the marine sanitation business more than 15 minutes (and most people who've bothered to learn anything about how the systems on their boats work) knows that the tank vent is the FIRST thing to check when a toilet backs up. And btw...maintaining your tank vent line to keep it clear is a LOT easier than unblocking it. You might want to check out the link below to learn how to do that AND how to prevent most other problems instead of having to cure 'em.
If the tank vent is blocked, air in the tank displaced by incoming waste has nowhere to go...so the tank becomes pressurized, creating backpressure that prevents bowl contents from going very far...instead, they go back to the bowl. The most common places for vent blockages to occur are the vent thru-hull and the connection to the tank...both the tank vent fitting and that end of the vent line. So check the thru-hull...scrape out whatever you find with a screwdriver blade. If there's a screen in it, knock it out...screens cause more problems than they solve. Then remove the vent line from the tank...scrape out whatever you find in the fitting and that end of the tank. If that doesn't solve your problem, remove the head discharge hose from the toilet and check it for sea water mineral buildup...I've seen it reduce the diameter of a 1.5" hose to less than .5". Or, you could have a clog. But based on the amount of water you say you're using to keep the line clear, that's unlikely. My money is on the tank vent. None of the above should be considered to recommend against replacing your Jabsco toilets with PH IIs. Not only is the PH II FAR better quality, but the Raritan tech support people have actually heard of holding tanks and vent lines...something no one at Jabsco apparently has...which says a lot, 'cuz anyone who's been in the marine sanitation business more than 15 minutes (and most people who've bothered to learn anything about how the systems on their boats work) knows that the tank vent is the FIRST thing to check when a toilet backs up. And btw...maintaining your tank vent line to keep it clear is a LOT easier than unblocking it. You might want to check out the link below to learn how to do that AND how to prevent most other problems instead of having to cure 'em.
Here's a simple question
Are the holding tanks above the base of the toilets? If so no regular joker valve is going to hold back the "waste" from the holding tank. Yeah they will work a little bit and once in a while, but unless there is a "hump" in the hose the waste will flow back into the head. Its simple gravity. maybe the first few years everything was working well, but now its just not holding back the tide. I am lucky I have a Catalina 36 and on our boats the base of the head is above the holding tank. The only time I'd see "back wash" is if the holding tank is full. If the heads are not lower than the holding tank then maybe its what Peggy described and a plugged vent Peggy one last thing -- I thought the FIRST thing to check when a toilet backs up is a full Holding tank
Don't laugh its more common reason when people complain about then you'd think about flow back into the head (But then again I'm sure you've heard that before)
Are the holding tanks above the base of the toilets? If so no regular joker valve is going to hold back the "waste" from the holding tank. Yeah they will work a little bit and once in a while, but unless there is a "hump" in the hose the waste will flow back into the head. Its simple gravity. maybe the first few years everything was working well, but now its just not holding back the tide. I am lucky I have a Catalina 36 and on our boats the base of the head is above the holding tank. The only time I'd see "back wash" is if the holding tank is full. If the heads are not lower than the holding tank then maybe its what Peggy described and a plugged vent Peggy one last thing -- I thought the FIRST thing to check when a toilet backs up is a full Holding tank
Don't laugh its more common reason when people complain about then you'd think about flow back into the head (But then again I'm sure you've heard that before)Thanks for your responses
Thank you to all. CalebD: I know our use of the Y-valve skirts the regs. We don't pollute, but it would be impossible to prove. When any official boat gets anywhere near us, we put the valves on "Tank," in case we have an official visit. The valves are not wired and locked, but at least they're in the proper position. We have to overcome this problem, so we can leave them on "Tank." We use CP for cleaning. We used to use only KO, but then somewhere we saw a recommendation that "Odorlos" was even better, so we switched. I do not remember the source of the recommendation-but it seemed authoritative at the time. We could switch back to KO if it is better. texastom: I had high hopes that replacing the head, and then replacing the brand new joker valve and base valve gasket would solve the problem. At least we do not have a stinky problem. We just flush again and secure the Y-valve and it's OK. Peggie: As always, reading your advice is a lot like reading the Bible. We will follow your recommended steps. I do have your book on the boat. I just have to read it again (leaky brain syndrome). If addressing all of the issues with lines and vents does not solve the problem, we will replace the Jabsco heads with higher quality. Because we are about to winterize and haul, we might have to wait until next season to know if we have to replace the heads. TomS: Our holding tanks are well above the heads. But we had no difficulties the first three years. I'm betting the problem will be the vents, as Peggie said. We empty the tanks soon after use, so they are never close to full. Thanks again to all.
Thank you to all. CalebD: I know our use of the Y-valve skirts the regs. We don't pollute, but it would be impossible to prove. When any official boat gets anywhere near us, we put the valves on "Tank," in case we have an official visit. The valves are not wired and locked, but at least they're in the proper position. We have to overcome this problem, so we can leave them on "Tank." We use CP for cleaning. We used to use only KO, but then somewhere we saw a recommendation that "Odorlos" was even better, so we switched. I do not remember the source of the recommendation-but it seemed authoritative at the time. We could switch back to KO if it is better. texastom: I had high hopes that replacing the head, and then replacing the brand new joker valve and base valve gasket would solve the problem. At least we do not have a stinky problem. We just flush again and secure the Y-valve and it's OK. Peggie: As always, reading your advice is a lot like reading the Bible. We will follow your recommended steps. I do have your book on the boat. I just have to read it again (leaky brain syndrome). If addressing all of the issues with lines and vents does not solve the problem, we will replace the Jabsco heads with higher quality. Because we are about to winterize and haul, we might have to wait until next season to know if we have to replace the heads. TomS: Our holding tanks are well above the heads. But we had no difficulties the first three years. I'm betting the problem will be the vents, as Peggie said. We empty the tanks soon after use, so they are never close to full. Thanks again to all.
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