I've been thinking

[dasreboot]

from the wikipedia entry for "tiller"
Until the current international standards for giving steering orders were applied around 1933[3], it was common for steering orders on ships to be given as "Tiller Orders", which dictated to which side of the vessel the tiller was to be moved. Since the tiller is forward of the rudder's pivot point, and the rudder aft of it, the tiller's movement is reversed at the rudder, giving the impression that orders were given "the wrong way round". For example, to turn a ship to port (its left side), the helmsman would be given the order "starboard helm" or "x degrees starboard". The ship's tiller was then moved to starboard, turning the rudder to the vessel's port side, producing a turn to port. The opposite convention applied in France (where tribord—starboard—meant turn to starboard), but Austria and Italy kept to the English system. There was no standardisation in vessels from Scandinavian countries, where the practice varied from ship to ship. Most French vessels with steering wheels had their steering chains reversed and when under the command of a British pilot this could result in confusion.[4]


"helms a lee" is an archaic order, and kept around mostly for tradition. in the current vernacular it really just means "I'm tacking". you are correct, it does not make sense when applied to wheel steered boats. choose what you like and most importantly be consistent! then everyone will know what you mean.

btw I like "helms alee" it lends some color to the commands.

 

[Joe]

from the wikipedia entry for "tiller"
Until the current international standards for giving steering orders were applied around 1933[3], it was common for steering orders on ships to be given as "Tiller Orders", which dictated to which side of the vessel the tiller was to be moved. Since the tiller is forward of the rudder's pivot point, and the rudder aft of it, the tiller's movement is reversed at the rudder, giving the impression that orders were given "the wrong way round". For example, to turn a ship to port (its left side), the helmsman would be given the order "starboard helm" or "x degrees starboard". The ship's tiller was then moved to starboard, turning the rudder to the vessel's port side, producing a turn to port. The opposite convention applied in France (where tribord—starboard—meant turn to starboard), but Austria and Italy kept to the English system. There was no standardisation in vessels from Scandinavian countries, where the practice varied from ship to ship. Most French vessels with steering wheels had their steering chains reversed and when under the command of a British pilot this could result in confusion.[4]


"helms a lee" is an archaic order, and kept around mostly for tradition. in the current vernacular it really just means "I'm tacking". you are correct, it does not make sense when applied to wheel steered boats. choose what you like and most importantly be consistent! then everyone will know what you mean.

Says Who?

btw I like "helms alee" it lends some color to the commands.

Unfortunately, as many wiki definitions are, that explanation is irrelevant to the command to tack or jibe. Helms alee, put the tiller down, down rudder... and many other versions from a historical perspective all include a reference to the wind direction. That's why we reverence the leeward direction... putting the tiller down, is the same as helm's alee... and they both mean to head the boat's bow into the wind by guiding it's stern downwind. Or.... tacking.
To say put the tiller to starboard or port doesn't tell you whether you're tacking or gybing.... well it does if you think about it for a second... but I've been sailing for 40 50 years and never heard a command like that. Of course I didn't attend the mainsail sailing school... my gurus are John Rousmaniere and Patrick O'Brian.
Think about other steering activities.... we "bear off" or "head up". We "come around" we "hold course" we "steer to the wind, or tell tales". Points of sail are the same for either side of the boat... so saying beam reach, or close hauled, or running, all refer to a course being steered to the true wind direction. We use the terms port and starboard tack mainly for right of way purposes. But using port and starboard in a command would mean you'd have to have two commands for the same action .... not very efficient.
So.... imvho.... I encourage us all to keep port and starboard out of our steering commands to the crew.... MISS....

You can pretty much say anything as long as the crew understands what's gonna happen, and when. But in large crewed sailing vessels... from the days of Columbus to Dennis Connor... a consistent command is important.
I usually just say "okay get ready to tack, or gybe.... wait for the crew to respond that they're ready.... then start the turn with... "helms alee" "tacking" or simply "here we go"
So, remember the elements of good crew communication. Most importantly they need to know what you're going to say long before you actually start commanding. Then there are three elements: The first is the "preparatory" then comes the "acknowledgment" and finally the "executory". ... intention... understanding... execution.
skipper says, "Prepare to tack" (never "prepare to turn the wheel to starboard")
crew responds, "ready to tack"
skipper commands, "helms alee" (or whatever action command you've decided to use)

 

[Will Gilmore]

We are getting pretty serious about this .
When I learned this command, it was aboard the Old Man's Victory 21, which is tiller steered. I must have been all of 4 as we were being taught the drill before our first tack. I learned it, along with the preparatory query, "READY ABOUT", as "HARD A LEE", which my brain heard as "heartily".

It was a sweet nautical sounding command and the only "nautical" command we ever used aboard. Lots of nautical terms, but only the one traditional nautical command, that I recall.

Of course, the best tacks don't go hard over, but that's what we used. The important part was to understand that when the order to "come about" was being executed, the sheets went slack the boom swept from one side to the other and the heel changed dramatically, so everyone better duck while switching sides amidst a lot of loud flapping and tackle jangling. It was pretty exciting.

I like all this nautical sounding stuff, even when it isn't precise. Clarity is, of course, the most important point for giving consistent commands. Poor communication aboard can lead to accidents and a noggin tap into the drink.

Maybe it could go something like, "READY ABOUT?"
"READY TO COME ABOUT, CAP'N!"
"SWEEP THE BOOM!", ...if the captain is ordering the helmsman, or "SWEEPING THE BOOM!", if the helmsman is giving the order.

With a good explosive aspiration of the "BOOM" sound, one gives urgency to the command.

You can go over this procedure with crew and guests to remind them that they are on a sailboat, not some mamby pamby powerboat. "WHEN YOU HEAR THE COMMAND TO COME ABOUT, SAILOR, YOU BETTER WATCH FOR THAT "BOOM! CAN YOU HEAR ME, SAILOR?"

"Yeah I hear you."

"I'M THE CAPTAIN ABOARD THIS VESSEL! WHEN I ASK YOU A QUESTION, YOU WILL ANSWER, 'YES SIR'! YOU GOT THAT SAILOR?"

"Yes sir."

"WHAT'S THAT, SAILOR? I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

"YES SIR!"

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[dasreboot]

im told that this incendent is the result of a command misunderstood. dont know german, but I read comments when it happened that the command was misunderstood as a tiller command, or the other way around. the skipper actually meant to bear off.

 

[Will Gilmore]

the skipper actually meant to bear off

Now there's a vague term for that situation. To 'bear off' when not under sail could mean any direction not the current heading. I think of it as away from, and since the ship was approaching from the port side, steering to starboard is to bear off.

The crew who jumped on the tiller either followed bad orders, made a mistake in judgement or had no idea how tiller steering worked. I'm going with bad judgment on this one, because if they had no idea of how a tiller worked, they would have let other, more experienced crew jump in. If they were following bad orders, they likewise made a mistake in judgement, since the situation was clear to anyone on deck.

That was a terrible accident that shouldn't have come close to happening. I don't want to be judgmental about another sailor's thinking and experience, but that just is so wrong.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[smokey73]

There is so much wrong with this that I'm just amazed. First, why he%$ did he think he was the stand on vessel? It looks to me that this situation is in restricted waters and he is approaching a large "encumbered" vessel with a deep draft or at least relatively deep draft. He cannont stop or turn on a dime. While he is a sailboat he still must use judgement in applying the rules of the road. Secondly, he is sounding the danger signal as if to suggest the larger encumbered vessel should alter course to avoid. He should have been on the radio signaling his intentions well in advance of this proposing a Starboard to Starboard passage or lacking contact sounded two shorts on his horn, indicating he was altering course to Port to effect a Starboard to Starboard passage and conveyed this info to the helmsman well before this. Thirdly, he should have made a course change long before he did to indicate what he intended to do even if he didn't have a radio or horn that worked. I'm not sure the large vessel could have made a course change in this situation or backed down fast enough to have avoided a collision. We can debate about rules of the road but since I don't speak German I don't know helm order but I think this is more a matter of applying the rules of the road than misunderstood helm orders. What an idiot on the sailboat.

When I had the Con on submarines in restricted waters I always appreciated the sailboat that would make a drastic course change (even staying on the same general direction of travel) that signaled to me that I did not have to worry about them too much. If they even came back to the original course I could tell that 1. They saw me, 2 were going to stay out of my way. Made me much more comfortable about who was piloting the sailboat (or powerboat for that matter). It was the yahoos on sailboat who thought they were the stand on vessel just because they they were a sailboat.

 

[Will Gilmore]

This has all been hashed out last June.
How does this happen?

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Serenity on Hudson]

Nautical jargon is generally understood by anyone who can sail a boat. Wheel or tiller, we know where to steer and how to these words. I like traditional terminology as it make me fee I'm a sailor. Since I almost always sail solo, I can shout to my hearts content anything that come to my head without any communication consequences. When I do have crew, I use proper terminology as I don't want any more confusion than we plan for.

 

[Will Gilmore]

I don't want any more confusion than we plan for.

what an interesting idea. I never thought I might actually want a little confusion in a sailing trip. I'll have to plan some in and see if I want more or less, or perhaps it's just right the first time. How much confusion would be good to start with? Maybe take it slow and plan just a little mixup, or jump right in and really go for a fubar right off the bat?

I suppose it could depend on the crew. Maybe a dash of perplexity is good to plan for the newbies while others could handle a bit of bewilderment with a lot of uncertainty. For the real pros, I might want to plan something that's much more puzzling or baffling while laying a lot of discombobulation on them.


One never knows how much fun can be had?

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Serenity on Hudson]

To plan is to be prepared. I try to anticipate what a newbie crew might do and try to be prepared. Like when I give the helm to said passenger and ask to keep the heading (after explaining how to while I am at the helm) and they say "what happens when I turn this way" into a jibe. Murphy's law always in mind.
That's why I solo sail. The only idiot is the one I know best.
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