It is up to a jury now

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John

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Jun 3, 2006
803
Catalina 36mkII Alameda CA
Nobody is condemning all law enforcement officers as being corrupt. However, Lake County, while being a rural county, is not some Southern backwater out of the 1930s. And it's clear that the entire Sheriff's Department heirarchy is involved in this cover up. I am not talking about every sheriff's deputy, but those who pull the strings there. Not only that, but the state attorney general's office was asked to investigate. They refused, thus effectively covering up for the county.

Finally, it's not a matter of punishing Perdock (the sheriff's deputy), although most of us do believe that if you do something seriously wrong, and also in violation of some laws or rules, you should be punished. It's also a matter of the fact that in seeking to cover up for the real culprit - Perdock - an innocent party is being put through the wringer. This whole thing really shows how corrupt our entire political system is, in my opinion.
 
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Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
It shows how corrupt the Lake County political system is. In Harford County Md, Law enforcement is held to a very high standard and our local weekly newspaper makes certain that there is transparency in all of the proceedings.
 
Dec 9, 2008
426
1980 Hunter 30 "Denali" Seaford, VA
I don't think ALL law enforcement is corrupt. Though I do think that the good ole boy stuff still exists big time. I also know from experience that VA State Troopers, especially on I64 will push you out of the way by riding up on your bumper, I see them a mile away in my rear view and move over etc, but I watch them push everyone else out of the way. They are not on a call, they are just going to the next speed trap area to set up. If they are on a call, they should turn their lights on to signal the car to move over. If they don't like the people that sit in the left lane driving slow, please pull them over, drivers in this country absolutely suck! I miss driving in Germany where people actually drove their cars as a primary activity, not a secondary activity to talking on their cell phone or checking their crackberry etc. Just about every time I see a local cop around here he/she is on his/her cell phone while driving, though this isn't against the law, it looks unprofessional, reduces the cops attention span, and though it could be a work related call, the amount I see them on the phone I think they must be personal phone calls while the tax payers are paying them to do something else. On the other hand, they aren't paid that much and they put their lives in dangers way everyday. Though in this case, they put other innocents peoples, that didn't "sign up" for it, lives in danger resulting in a tragic loss of life.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Rich...You hit the nail on the head. It is a totally different culture. If we had no speed limits and little traffic laws, Someone would be driving a minivan down the highway with blad tires and bad breaks at 100 mph while texting on a cellphone and eating a Big Mac. Seriously, I have seen people reading newspapers while driving.

The average driver's perception reaction time is 1.5 seconds. A vehicle at that speed will be traveling at 80.63 feet per second. In the 1.5 seconds it would take a driver to percieve a hazard the vehicle would travel 120.95 feet. Additionally, once the driver applied the breaks the vehicle would cover 144.05 feet. This means from the time of perception reaction until the vehicle is at rest the vehicle covers about 265 feet. Of course this isn't going to take into account a driver who is distracted.

Driver distratction is the #1 cause of crashes on the highway. It is probably the same with boating.

Why must we have speed limits? The answer is because people will not use good judgement in a lot of cases so the government places a line in the sand to determine what is good judgement.

If there was a speed limint on the lake at night, it is possible that the power boat would have been violating that limit. If so, then it would be very obvious that there was a lot of liability on the power boat driver's part.
I can agree with you; but, only up to one point. If local municipalities were allowed to set nighttime or other speed limits on the water, then we would inevitably be subject to the same classic immorality that automobile drivers face - the local municipality using such 'advantage' to put up dishonest 'speed traps' solely to enhance their revenue income collection. One must remember that by the most elemental definition 'cops' are essentially 'paid mercenaries' who work for the municipalities, not the citizens. Nothing wrong with the current federal maritime regulations of: constant 'watch', prudent speeds, "dont have a collision with another boat" (a paraphrase), etc. as listed in the current COLREGs. Why the Dinius case wasnt adjudicated in an admiralty court is totally beyond belief ... but when 'local shysters' get involved any twisting of the law is possible. I guess that is to be expected when a nation rapidly continues to descend from a 'nation of laws' to a 'nation of contingency fees' and the aggressive, slobbering/drooling 'pursuit of deep pockets'.

*Too many lawyers*, not enough recipes.
 
H

Hanky Panky

The bottom Line...........plain and simple, Thanks Rodger!

This is a quote from a responce to the Lat 38 story, it is a mute point as to lights being on or off or whom was intoxicated or not or whom was at the helm. These rules of the water say it all, it is the responceablity of the power boat skipper, plain and simple. Tree stumps have no running lights, damn shame he didn't find one of them first!!




An overtaking vessel is the give way vessel. That's one of the primary rules of navigation, both Inland and Coastal areas of the United States. This rule is supported by the Code of Federal Regulations. This is akin to having someone crash into the back of your car.

NO matter how sober, or not, the skipper of the sailboat was in that situation there would have been NOTHING he could do to prevent collision. His lack of rudderway due to light winds restricted his maneuverability. A vessel with restricted ability to manuever has right of way over others that do not have that restriction.

The issue of running lights should be held mute in this instance. Fully legal running lights, especially the only light visible to an overtaking vessel, would be impossible to distinguish from other white lights on shore.

1. The sailboat was restricted in it's ability to manuever, therefore it had right of way.
2. The sailboat was the overtaken vessel, therefore it had right of way.
3. 40-50 mph on a lake where other vessels are known to navigate at night is not "a little" too fast. It is WAY too fast.
4. Vessels under Sail have right of way over powerboats in general. The only times this is not true is when the power vessel is far too large to avoid a collision, or if the sail vessel recently maneuvered onto a collision course. Therefore the sailboat had right of way for this reason also. This is also covered in the Code of Federal Regulations.

I find it incredible that any judge would allow the operator of the powerboat to bring charges against those operating the sail vessel in this case.

Regards,

Roger Anderson
USCG Licensed Captain (50 Ton Master's)

Posted
 

Ross

.
Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
I can agree with you; but, only up to one point. If local municipalities were allowed to set nighttime or other speed limits on the water, then we would inevitably be subject to the same classic immorality that automobile drivers face - the local municipality using such 'advantage' to put up dishonest 'speed traps' solely to enhance their revenue income collection. One must remember that by the most elemental definition 'cops' are essentially 'paid mercenaries' who work for the municipalities, not the citizens. Nothing wrong with the current federal maritime regulations of: constant 'watch', prudent speeds, "dont have a collision with another boat" (a paraphrase), etc. as listed in the current COLREGs. Why the Dinius case wasnt adjudicated in an admiralty court is totally beyond belief ... but when 'local shysters' get involved any twisting of the law is possible. I guess that is to be expected when a nation rapidly continues to descend from a 'nation of laws' to a 'nation of contingency fees' and the aggressive, slobbering/drooling 'pursuit of deep pockets'.

*Too many lawyers*, not enough recipes.

I would support stricter enforcement of boater safety and on the water speed limits.

There is a lot of water out there and high speed boats should be restricted to reasonable speeds in crowded water ways and channels and during periods of restricted visibility.
 

zeehag

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Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
stricter enforcement by whom?? the offender was the law, mon--we never were a democracy--always were a republic--
when the LAW breaks the law,in many places., it is covered up by using a scapegoat---look at the reality---dinius is the scapegoat for the stoopit murderous sheriff----read the lat 38 coverage from start to finish...we need no0 more laws--just smarter peoples!!!!!!! and less corruptions......
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
stricter enforcement by whom?? the offender was the law, mon--we never were a democracy--always were a republic--
when the LAW breaks the law,in many places., it is covered up by using a scapegoat---look at the reality---dinius is the scapegoat for the stoopit murderous sheriff----read the lat 38 coverage from start to finish...we need no0 more laws--just smarter peoples!!!!!!! and less corruptions......
Has anyone, to your knowledge, brought this to the attention of your governor? Do the big city news bureaus know of this miscarriage of justice? Has anyone gotten the Stanford law school involved? Those students love a David and Goliath fight. The harsh light of day is the best remedy for corruption anywhere.
 
Jul 27, 2009
54
Hunter 1981 30 Lake Travis
Multiple parties at fault

Lake co. was my home of record for many years. I have sailed & motorboated on it many times. The issue here is not should the folks on the sailboat be charged with operating a boat under the influance or not, but should other charges be brought for the power boat driver. Like it or not, the person at the helm and the boat owner were over the limit by blood tests. The power boater was not. Were lights on? There is conflicting evidence, what have the tests shown? If the sailboat had a proper, sober lookout could they have taken action, lighted the sails, sounded a horn? Was the power boat going to fast most likely, should he also be charged? Yes. But folks if you are operating a boat over the limit, you can't use as a defense "I just had my hand on the tiller" We all have had close calls, and as a retired naval officer I remember an old capt telling me, "Lt don't let yourself get in a spot where you have to rely on the rules of the road to keep your ship safe." I believe that both "capttains" are at fault here.
 
C

cfibob3721

Enough Guilt to Go Around

if we're to accept the news clip as providing all of the facts in evidence, there are a few points of law to consider...

1. if you're under the influence while operating a vehicle in California, you are guilty of manslaughter. Even if you were sitting still when hit. This applies to autos, motorcycles and boats.

2. if the sailboat running lights were NOT on, the sailboat "driver" would be at fault. If they were on (assuming no alcohol or drugs) the motor vessel operator is the one at fault.

3. clearly, if the motor vessel poperator wasn't tested for 12 hours, there is reasonable doubt as to the validity of the case.

The loss of life is tragic and someone should be learning a lesson from this event, perhaps now implementing so speed laws on the lake would be appropriate. If anyone is guilty in this case, it would appear to be the mv operator - not the sailboat operator.
 
Nov 26, 2006
381
Hunter 31 1987 Fly Creek Marina Fairhope,AL.
This is a quote from a responce to the Lat 38 story, it is a mute point as to lights being on or off or whom was intoxicated or not or whom was at the helm. These rules of the water say it all, it is the responceablity of the power boat skipper, plain and simple. Tree stumps have no running lights, damn shame he didn't find one of them first!!




An overtaking vessel is the give way vessel. That's one of the primary rules of navigation, both Inland and Coastal areas of the United States. This rule is supported by the Code of Federal Regulations. This is akin to having someone crash into the back of your car.

NO matter how sober, or not, the skipper of the sailboat was in that situation there would have been NOTHING he could do to prevent collision. His lack of rudderway due to light winds restricted his maneuverability. A vessel with restricted ability to manuever has right of way over others that do not have that restriction.

The issue of running lights should be held mute in this instance. Fully legal running lights, especially the only light visible to an overtaking vessel, would be impossible to distinguish from other white lights on shore.

1. The sailboat was restricted in it's ability to manuever, therefore it had right of way.

CORRECT PER CFR'S
2. The sailboat was the overtaken vessel, therefore it had right of way.
CORRECT PER CFR'S
3. 40-50 mph on a lake where other vessels are known to navigate at night is not "a little" too fast. It is WAY too fast.
ALSO CORRECT PER CFR'S " Safe speed regarding current conditions "
4. Vessels under Sail have right of way over powerboats in general. The only times this is not true is when the power vessel is far too large to avoid a collision, or if the sail vessel recently maneuvered onto a collision course. Therefore the sailboat had right of way for this reason also. This is also covered in the Code of Federal Regulations.

A sail boat under power has same rules of road as power driven vessel" CFR's also

I find it incredible that any judge would allow the operator of the powerboat to bring charges against those operating the sail vessel in this case.

Posted
The audacity of the DA stating that NO Speed limits were violated does indicate he was not fully correct and probably not knowledgable of USCG CFR's

I would also like to know wHO administered the test and WHEN regardin blood alchohol levels. The sherrifs office?

My 2 cents

Captain Charles Creel
200 ton masters power , 100 ton sail, unlimited towing
Professional Mairiner since 1995
 

timvg

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May 10, 2004
276
Hunter 40.5 Long Beach, CA
The power boater should be locked up for life for murder. Many laws and rules were broken by this "make believe" police officer:

1.Rules of the road say that the overtaking boat (the powerboat) should give right of way to the boat being passed (the sailboat.) Crashing into it appears tro violate this rule.
2. Rules of the road give right of way to a sailboat. The power boat violated this one also. (Crashing into it is not giving right of way).
3. Rules of the road say a vessel may only go as fast as is deemed safe by conditions. Going 40mph at night is not safe by any sane person's definition. This worthles excuse for a cop was going so fast, there's no way he could have seen running lights.

I have relatives that live in the Clear Lake area and I'm disgusted to know that their police department is made up of a bunch of crooks and cowards. Obviously, these idiots don't know anything about boating and are a poor excuse for law enforcement.
 
May 12, 2008
24
Santana 525 Bristol, PA Delaware River
This is a very sad and tragic story. I'm sure the Jury will see take all the facts and come to a just conclusion. From what I've read I can't imagine a guilty verdict. It does make you think twice about drinking and sailing and the risks that are involved. Perhaps the beverages are better served at the dock or the mooring after a nice sail.
 
W

whk1965

They want respect

Police expect and sometimes demand our respect, ( i.e. harvard prof) but then there is a cover-up, lying and bending or breaking all rules. Police must be examples of law abiding citizens not how to beat the system. If the power boat driver gets away with this it is certainly a black eye to all law enforcement.
 
Sep 20, 2005
55
Oday 35 Westport, MA
This whole case is so similar to one that happened in Buzzards Bay, off of Massachusetts around the same time last year (http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080815/NEWS/808150345). That one was a 63-foot cabin cruiser going over a 35-foot sailboat in broad daylight, the sailboat under full sail. A respected businessman, sailor, and sailing teacher was killed in that "accident" and another man survived.

The driver of the power boat managed to call a distant coast guard station to report the accident, and then disappear, unidentified for several days. Turns out that the driver had previous speeding violations in Virginia and North Carolina.

Here in the East we have a very strong "Sense of Justice". Eventually, the guy was charged with a misdemeanor, just as he was in his previous infractions, but with a human life on his conscience this time. Its a pretty good bet that he's still out in a monster cruiser somewhere, endangering more lives.

Something's badly broken in our legal system, that's for sure.

Jeff
 
R

rrkriete

Mr Never Wrong

Cops, like the drunk one in this case, are never wrong and don't have to follow our laws. They are not here to protect and serve. They are here to protect each other when they are drunk, on 'roids and kill someone, or kill someone like they did in this case. They are also here to serve themselves with our tax dollars. Just my opinion, not offered as fact...but we know it is.

 
A

Aeollus II

There is a tiny hope...

Hopefully there will be sailors on the jury. It is California, if the trial was in Iowa, where I sail, not only do the power boaters have no knowledge of boating rules and conduct, they think sailboats are buoys to slalom around! My heart goes out to the O'day crew.
 
W

William2772

Applicable Rules of the Road

Chapter 5, The overtaking vessel must take evasive action.
Rule 6, Safe Speed.
but most importantly, Rule 2, The Rule of Good Seamanship.
The defendant must put into evidence the Rules of the Road.

The deputy clearly is guilty of depraved manslaugter traveling at such a speed at night which was NOT a safe speed. And Rule 2 indicates that good seamanship is to be applied with respect to all of the conditions - night???????

That he was not charged clearly indicates a perversion of laws and the court system in California.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Okay try this: we are a republic with a democratic form of government. Yes I know the difference between a republic and a Republican. I am registered as a Republican. The Soviet Union was also a republic but with a communist form of government. If you can't make the distintion between an alliance of states and the form of government under which they operate then there is no hope in find a ground for a civil discussion.
Wrong again.
The USSR was a communist federation of 'republics', all republics 'deferring' to the 'central government'.
In the United States the Founding Fathers like James Madison defined republic in terms of **representative democracy** as opposed to only having direct democracy, and this usage is still employed by many viewing themselves as "republicans". In modern political science, republicanism refers to a specific ideology that is based on civic virtue and is considered distinct from ideologies such as liberalism.
As regarding 'states' such as in United STATES of America, these are political subdivision of the federal form of government and were to implement that NOT forbidden/imited to the fed govt. by the US Constitution - ....... so as a "Republican" you should be utterly disgusted that the current federal representative democracy has usurped most of the power and responsibilities that pretain to the 'states'.
 
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