It is up to a jury now

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Feb 26, 2004
23,045
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
13 seconds of nonsense

At 45 mph the powerboat is going 66 feet per second and there would have been 13 seconds notice from a 300 yard distance at 500 yards there was app. 22 seconds notice. I still contend that given the diminished capacity of everyone on board the sailboat awareness times and response times were significantly diminished.
And I continue to ask just what could YOU or anyone else have done in those 13 to 22 seconds with an outboard motor off and NO wind. Paddle?

second 1 to maybe 3 - "Aha, must be a drunken sherriff deputy in his speedboat ro0undign the corner of the lake where we can't see him"

second 4 to 6 - "Let's get the outboard started right away, he may hit us."

second 7 to 9 - "Vrrooom."

second 10 - 13 - "Boy, that was close, glad we got out of his way"

Pete, ya really think even you with NO drinks in your hand or body, could get an outboard motor started that soon based on something you can't see, not knowing that it's headed right for you or not? OK, maybe the 22 seconds...
 

zeehag

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Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
one(1) beer in one hour =0.08, the legally drunk limit in kalifornikation---how do YOU handle one beer in one hour????/ as LEGALLY drunk, should not be behind the wheel of anything.......also---dinius was NOT the owner of the sailboat--just RELIEF helm for a peeing owner, who went to the head instead of pissing into the lake.....there was NO wind--how could anyone ZIG or ZAG!!!????
yes--SITTING DUCK ..... yes..PERDOCK sucks...YES-- the WHOLE CASE sux.....i just hope someone in jury can see the entire ball of snot perdock hokked out into the court system and acquit dinius.........
 

Bob S

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Sep 27, 2007
1,804
Beneteau 393 New Bedford, MA
Wasn't Perdock seen drinking? I know he wasn't tested until the hospital. Waht was his BAC #'s? Maybe Dinius will be charged with BWI but given everything that's been brought up in this case, it's hard to put any blame on him for the accident.
 

Bob V

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Mar 13, 2008
235
Catalina 42mkII Lagoon Point
It may be that the title of the thread is confusing us

we all seem to think it is up to the jury to determine who is at fault in this fatal collision, that's not their job. They only have to decide if Dinius is guilty of BUI. It doesn't matter one bit what the powerboat did that night to this case as much as the defense might wish it did. The DA (wisely) has focused on one small issue "Was Dinius guilty of BUI?".

I won't try to convince anyone that there was anything that could have been done by the sailboat crew, nor will I try to argue that there was not. That would be a moot point since it is not relavent to the simple question that the jury must answer "Was Dinius drunk at the helm?".

This doesn't mean that the speedboat driver should not be chained to a rock while crabs pick at his genitals but unfortunately that is an entirely different case. It is not without hope however. There is already public pressure on the DA and Sheriffs Dept regarding the collision. What needs to happen is that this "other trial" that is not presently on the docket needs to go to court where discussions of these issues would be relevant.
 

zeehag

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Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
Wasn't Perdock seen drinking? I know he wasn't tested until the hospital. Waht was his BAC #'s? Maybe Dinius will be charged with BWI but given everything that's been brought up in this case, it's hard to put any blame on him for the accident.
perdock was witnessed drinking just prior to the incident. perdock has no numbers indicating same as he refused his ba test or had the numbers lost for his benefit.....corruption rules clear lake....go figger.....and this case is going to be the basis for any others folllowing--such as the wrongful death of lynn thornton--this is not an incidental thing--this is a building block from hell....
 
Sep 26, 2008
566
- - Noank CT.
Re: 13 seconds of nonsense

13 to 22 seconds in a emergency situation is a lot of time. Yes I might have been able to start the engine and maneuver out of the way or have blown a horn possible warning the powerboat of the danger. I would contend that even at three knots boat speed ten second would have moved the boat 30 feet. Had the sailboat done SOMETHING it could have changed the outcome of this accident. Just changing the angle of impact of the two boats by could have made a difference in the results. Having done something would have been better then nothing at all. Just for an experiment see what you could do in 10 seconds to avoid a accident. See if you could start your engine and have maneuvered your boat to have at least lessened the impact angle or if you could have blow a horn in that ten seconds time. Then just to be fair do it with a illegally high blood alcohol content. Please do not actually operate the boat but estimate how far it would have gone after you started the engine or if the angle of impact was or was not changed in that 10 seconds or maybe if your were sitting (as in sitting duck as some have contended) in a car and saw another car coming directly at you would you be able to get out of the car or blow the horn or maneuver the car in some way ??.I would not ask you to put yourself or any one else at risk by actual operating your boat or car while under the influence of alcohol. The flaw in your argument as I see it is you base it on you can't hear or see the powerboat. (is there such thing as a truely "blind" corner or point on a lake ?) I contend that the alcohol was a contributing factor to not being able to see it as others (the people onshore 300 to 500 yards away were. Please get back to us on the results. Hope the hangover is not to bad !:doh:
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Re: It may be that the title of the thread is confusing us

The jury has absolute authority to convict or acquit in a trial. Try to remember that the jury is made up of people just like us. We all have pretty good crap detectors and from my experience as a jury member we would consider the relevance of the charge to the circumstance. The jury will argue the traffic comparisons and decide whether sitting at a traffic light after leaving a restaurant and being rear ended is the fault of a half bottle of wine or the fault of some damn fool that ran into the back of the car. Most of the jury will argue that they have been in just that state of being and will not find fault with the victim in this case. I have seen prosecutors look dumbfounded at the verdict and have seen defence attorneys appear equally shocked by a guilty verdict.
 
Dec 9, 2008
426
1980 Hunter 30 "Denali" Seaford, VA
Changing the angle of impact could also have made the crash even more fatal.

I think this whole case stinks, and I think that if he is convicted and that cop is let go free that our legal system is failing the people as much as our economic, housing, employment, and many other systems currently are failing the people.

Where is this poll people are refering to? I can't seem to locate it.

thanks!
 
Sep 26, 2008
566
- - Noank CT.
"as a jury member we would consider the relevance of the charge to the circumstance"

Ross,

I 'm not sure that you would be filling your legal responsibility as a jury member if you considered the circumstance. The BUI is based on blood alcohol level. Either it is or it is not. Maybe arguing if the field test and breathalyzer were accurate and the police follow the letter of the law to obtain them might be valid but mixing in all the other circumstances would be against the presumed instructions of the judge to consider the charge of BUI and not the relevance of the charge. It is pretty cut and dry either he was or was not above the legal limit. Got to believe that is why the prosecutor dropped the manslaughter charge and went with BUI because he could get a conviction.
 

zeehag

.
Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
13 to 22 seconds in a emergency situation is a lot of time. Yes I might have been able to start the engine and maneuver out of the way or have blown a horn possible warning the powerboat of the danger. I would contend that even at three knots boat speed ten second would have moved the boat 30 feet. Had the sailboat done SOMETHING it could have changed the outcome of this accident. Just changing the angle of impact of the two boats by could have made a difference in the results. Having done something would have been better then nothing at all. Just for an experiment see what you could do in 10 seconds to avoid a accident. See if you could start your engine and have maneuvered your boat to have at least lessened the impact angle or if you could have blow a horn in that ten seconds time. Then just to be fair do it with a illegally high blood alcohol content. Please do not actually operate the boat but estimate how far it would have gone after you started the engine or if the angle of impact was or was not changed in that 10 seconds or maybe if your were sitting (as in sitting duck as some have contended) in a car and saw another car coming directly at you would you be able to get out of the car or blow the horn or maneuver the car in some way ??.I would not ask you to put yourself or any one else at risk by actual operating your boat or car while under the influence of alcohol. The flaw in your argument as I see it is you base it on you can't hear or see the powerboat. (is there such thing as a truely "blind" corner or point on a lake ?) I contend that the alcohol was a contributing factor to not being able to see it as others (the people onshore 300 to 500 yards away were. Please get back to us on the results. Hope the hangover is not to bad !:doh:
the sailboat was NOT making 3 kts --was DRIFTING. have YOU pull started YOUR engine in less than 30 seconds? can you steer your sailboat with NO STEERAGE WAY???? have YOU driven after pone beer in one hour?? when the speeding boat has NO lights on, how do you see him?? and how far from YOUR voat do you see him?? you CAN hear but from where is it coming?? remember, perdock had his lights OFF because he allegedly could see the nav markers better with them OFF......remember. clear lake has NO nav markers...LOL....
 

Tim R.

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May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
Peter, it takes about 15 seconds of glow plug before my engine will start when it is cold.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
"as a jury member we would consider the relevance of the charge to the circumstance"

Ross,

I 'm not sure that you would be filling your legal responsibility as a jury member if you considered the circumstance. The BUI is based on blood alcohol level. Either it is or it is not. Maybe arguing if the field test and breathalyzer were accurate and the police follow the letter of the law to obtain them might be valid but mixing in all the other circumstances would be against the presumed instructions of the judge to consider the charge of BUI and not the relevance of the charge. It is pretty cut and dry either he was or was not above the legal limit. Got to believe that is why the prosecutor dropped the manslaughter charge and went with BUI because he could get a conviction.
Peter, in some circumstances a father who shoots and kills a pedophile that has molested his child will be found not guilty by a jury in-spite of a dozen witnesses and a confession. The jury has the right to decide if it was a crime. They could decide that there is on crime involved in killing a varmit. An attorny friend of mine says it is not what is written in the law, it is what the jury says is the law.
 

John

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Jun 3, 2006
803
Catalina 36mkII Alameda CA
Irrelevant

13 to 22 seconds in a emergency situation is a lot of time. Yes I might have been able to start the engine and maneuver out of the way or have blown a horn possible warning the powerboat of the danger. I would contend that even at three knots boat speed ten second would have moved the boat 30 feet. Had the sailboat done SOMETHING it could have changed the outcome of this accident. Just changing the angle of impact of the two boats by could have made a difference in the results. Having done something would have been better then nothing at all. Just for an experiment see what you could do in 10 seconds to avoid a accident. See if you could start your engine and have maneuvered your boat to have at least lessened the impact angle or if you could have blow a horn in that ten seconds time. Then just to be fair do it with a illegally high blood alcohol content. Please do not actually operate the boat but estimate how far it would have gone after you started the engine or if the angle of impact was or was not changed in that 10 seconds or maybe if your were sitting (as in sitting duck as some have contended) in a car and saw another car coming directly at you would you be able to get out of the car or blow the horn or maneuver the car in some way ??.I would not ask you to put yourself or any one else at risk by actual operating your boat or car while under the influence of alcohol. The flaw in your argument as I see it is you base it on you can't hear or see the powerboat. (is there such thing as a truely "blind" corner or point on a lake ?) I contend that the alcohol was a contributing factor to not being able to see it as others (the people onshore 300 to 500 yards away were. Please get back to us on the results. Hope the hangover is not to bad !:doh:
The point I've made several times on this thread is the following: All the talk of whether Dinius is legally guilty and whether he could have done something to avoid the accident or lessen its results is irrelevant at best. In fact, it distracts from the main issue: Unless the facts are totally different from what we've all been told, there is absolutely no justification for failing to charge Purdock. You could make an argument in favor of charging Bismarck too, but to charge him without charging Purdock makes it absolutely clear that there is a cover-up going on. Any talk that focuses on Bismarck's being over the limit only distracts from this main issue.

If it is true that the judge ruled that questions as to navigation rules are out of order, this is part of the cover up. How can a jury, probably mostly composed of people not familiar with the rules of the road on a boat, come to a knowledgable conclusion without knowing those rules?

Under these circumstances, a "guilty" verdict helps them continue in this cover-up. It also helps assure that Purdock will be able to have apparantly murdered somebody and get off without any consequences. And focusing on whether Bismarck has some responsibility, under THESE circumstances, while Purdock is set to be completely exonerated of any responsibility - this helps the cover up (whether intended or not). A guilty verdic, among other things, will make it harder for anybody to sue Purdock. This is all part of the intent of the sheriff's department, the DA, California Attorney General Jerry Brown, and apparantly the judge too.
 
Sep 26, 2008
566
- - Noank CT.
Tim R, they were out for 30 minutes so unless the boat sailed off the dock the engine was warm and would not needed glow plugs and the pictures I saw were of an outboard engine hanging off the stern of the boat in question. So tell me how the glow plugs would prevent you from blowing your horn or doing something else ??

Zeehag,

Yes I can pull start my engine and have it in gear in less the 30 seconds, And I would hope you could too in an emergency situation. Starting the engine was only one of several things the sailboat operator could have done not the only thing. As far as Purdoks lights being off I don't understand how the people on shore saw lights on both boats ?? So there seams to be some fact in dispute here and it is clear what version you have chosen to believe... Not sure how if I every operated a boat or car after one beer and hour is relevant here but yes I have and that is not to say that makes it right.

Please somebody explain to my why it was OK for the sailboat to be out on the lake with the crew drunk and prove to me that the alcohol had no bearing or relevance on the situation. If someone can please do that and I will promise not to make another post on the thread and wait for the verdict of the jury.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Re: Irrelevant

John , I tend to agree with your claim of a cover up but of a much more limited nature than you suggest. I think that the judge is satying neutral as he should. Sustaining objections until he can be shown the relevance. The defence prepared a brief to this end concerning the navigational runs for inland waters.
The chain of State's Attornys above the local level probably have enough to do without involving themselves at this level at this time. They will wait to see how this plays out before getting involved.
 
Sep 26, 2008
566
- - Noank CT.
John from Alamida

OJ was found not quilty criminaly but found civily responsible for the death of his ex wife. I think the same thing will happen here. I agree Purdock should also be charged but Purdocks guilt does not have any bearing on if Diuius was or was not BUI.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Please somebody explain to my why it was OK for the sailboat to be out on the lake with the crew drunk and prove to me that the alcohol had no bearing or relevance on the situation. If someone can please do that I will promise not to make another post on the thread and wait for the verdict of the jury.
Allow me to try: If you were in an unpowered boat drifting and fishing and a high speed boat was heading in your direction. Would you observe the powerboat and try to determine where he was heading? could you determine if he would pass to your left or to your right? Would it help if you put your oars in the water and started pulling? which way you you go? Would that choice put you in the path of the powerboat or would it take you clear? Would you be better off doing nothing? Would it matter that you had been drinking beer while enjoying a day on the lake?

Edited for spelling
 
Jul 27, 2009
54
Hunter 1981 30 Lake Travis
Becareful stating wrong facts

Folks becareful stating "facts". The dep. volunteered to take a blood test right away. (The results were .00, by hospital report). The owner was .18 & Dinius was .12, well over the .08 limit.) In court testimony people tesitfied that all parties on the sailboat were "having a goodtime." There was evidance of alcohol on the sailboat after the crash. Was Dinius at the helm? Yes. Was he over the limit? Yes. then he is being charged with the right crime BWI.
 
Sep 26, 2008
566
- - Noank CT.
"Would it matter that you had been drinking beer while enjoying a day on the lake?"

Ross,
Yes it would have mattered. At no time is it legal to drink so much beer that you are over the legal limit and then go and operate a boat. Had the sailboat crew gotten falling down drunk and stayed on shore this would not have happened but when they chose to go for a boat ride they need to accept responsibility for their actions. BUI is against the law. Until some can prove to me that the awarness,response time of the people on the sailboat were not a contributing factor to this accident I will continue to put some responsibility on them. Operating a vessel in a diminished capacity is just WRONG ! Again PLEASE someone tell me why most are willing to give the sailboat a free "Get out of jail " card ? ?
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
The power boater, Perdock, was seen drinking prior to the accident. He was not given field sobriety tests and his blood sample wasn't taken until about eight hours after the accident. Saying that he was not drunk is highly questionable, given the fact that the officers investigating the accident were told specifically not to administer field sobriety tests or take blood at that time...

While Dinius may have been BUI, I seriously doubt that even had he been stone cold sober and had the sailing skills of Dennis Conner, that the outcome would have been any different. Avoiding a boat that is doing 50 MPH, by Perdock's own testimony, at night without being able to see it is very unlikely. Also, Perdock's testimony said that he could barely see ten feet given the moonless night... yet he was going 40+ MPH by his own conflicted and changing testimony.

While sound carries at night, directionality is often difficult to tell. Given the events of the accident, it isn't clear how visible Perdock's boat would have been to a lookout on the sailboat just prior to the accident.

I'd also point out that given the speed and noise the speedboat made, sounding a horn on the sailboat would have likely done little good, as Perdock likely would not have heard it. And even if he had, no one can say whether Perdock was sober enough to realize what it meant and whether he would have responded correctly.

Your points about Dinius's sobriety and being able to maintain a proper look out are good ones, but are the not also applicable to Perdock, and even more important given the fact that he was operating a vessel at a speed generally considered very unsafe for the conditions at the time. The sailboat is reported to have had its navigation lights as well as it cabin lights on at the time of the accident. Given how well lit it was, would lighting the sails be of any real additional benefit, given that Perdock clearly didn't see the navigation lights or cabin lights.

I'd point out that starting the motor on many boats takes a few seconds at the very least. Warming the glowplugs and then turning over the engine and getting it into gear may take 15 seconds or so on some boats... that would allow the powerboat to travel over 1000 feet before the sailboat would even be able to start moving...

Even the person who instructed most of the Lake County Sherrif's department in investigating Marine Accidents stated that Perdock was to blame for the accident and subsequent death, due to his reckless speed, yet the DA basically ignored this testimony and no charges have been filed against Perdock.

Lake co. was my home of record for many years. I have sailed & motorboated on it many times. The issue here is not should the folks on the sailboat be charged with operating a boat under the influance or not, but should other charges be brought for the power boat driver. Like it or not, the person at the helm and the boat owner were over the limit by blood tests. The power boater was not. Were lights on? There is conflicting evidence, what have the tests shown? If the sailboat had a proper, sober lookout could they have taken action, lighted the sails, sounded a horn? Was the power boat going to fast most likely, should he also be charged? Yes. But folks if you are operating a boat over the limit, you can't use as a defense "I just had my hand on the tiller" We all have had close calls, and as a retired naval officer I remember an old capt telling me, "Lt don't let yourself get in a spot where you have to rely on the rules of the road to keep your ship safe." I believe that both "capttains" are at fault here.
 
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