Sailboats are made better now than ever before. Are there international standards that they work to? ...Similar to the ISO 9001/or whatever they call it? If so, whick manufacturers have the best practices? Thanks
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ISO - SMISHO
Mike: I am a professional buyer and strongly suggest to you that you not equate a maker who claims to be “ISO CERTIFIED” with quality. It has been my sad experience that it frequently means just the opposite! Paul s/v The Lord Nelson
Mike: I am a professional buyer and strongly suggest to you that you not equate a maker who claims to be “ISO CERTIFIED” with quality. It has been my sad experience that it frequently means just the opposite! Paul s/v The Lord Nelson
I dont believe so
First, let me preface this by saying that i dont know for fact, but i have read many times that there are no standards for boat manufacturing. The only standards that im aware of are for COLREGS stuff such as Nav lights etc. Also I believe there are standards for calling yourself a 'blue water' boat , which i think has something to do with capsize ratio et.al. As for the improvement in quality, partly due to new technology and partly due to competition because as the prices increase, the buyers get more sophisticated.
First, let me preface this by saying that i dont know for fact, but i have read many times that there are no standards for boat manufacturing. The only standards that im aware of are for COLREGS stuff such as Nav lights etc. Also I believe there are standards for calling yourself a 'blue water' boat , which i think has something to do with capsize ratio et.al. As for the improvement in quality, partly due to new technology and partly due to competition because as the prices increase, the buyers get more sophisticated.
International standards
Boats intended to be sold in the European Union are required to meet CE standards, which include rating them for the number of people and type of service. This number can be found for many boats, and must be on the builders plate in the EU. It will read something like A6 B7 C8 D10: meaning rated for 6 people in the ocean, 7 offshore, 8 coastal and 10 in protected waters, On the other hand, like ISO 9001, it primarily reflects a set of mechanistic criteria and probably has precious little to do with real seaworthiness. That being said, if a boat were not rated for offshore, it might not be too smart to take it there.
Boats intended to be sold in the European Union are required to meet CE standards, which include rating them for the number of people and type of service. This number can be found for many boats, and must be on the builders plate in the EU. It will read something like A6 B7 C8 D10: meaning rated for 6 people in the ocean, 7 offshore, 8 coastal and 10 in protected waters, On the other hand, like ISO 9001, it primarily reflects a set of mechanistic criteria and probably has precious little to do with real seaworthiness. That being said, if a boat were not rated for offshore, it might not be too smart to take it there.
CE and ABYC Standards
"If so, which manufacturers have the best practices?" Probably the ones that I cannot afford! The RYA has a web page for the CE standards - you can view it here: http://www.rya.org.uk/KnowledgeBase/technical/reccraftdir.htm In the US, boats should conform to ABYC standards, their website is here: http://www.abycinc.org/ ABYC covers stuff like scantlings and wiring and is often quoted and referred to here in the USA. Many manufacturers will list CE ratings for their boats - as stated eleswhere - what that really means in terms of seaworthiness is a matter of debate - and at least for me any good coastal cruiser will be most excellent.
"If so, which manufacturers have the best practices?" Probably the ones that I cannot afford! The RYA has a web page for the CE standards - you can view it here: http://www.rya.org.uk/KnowledgeBase/technical/reccraftdir.htm In the US, boats should conform to ABYC standards, their website is here: http://www.abycinc.org/ ABYC covers stuff like scantlings and wiring and is often quoted and referred to here in the USA. Many manufacturers will list CE ratings for their boats - as stated eleswhere - what that really means in terms of seaworthiness is a matter of debate - and at least for me any good coastal cruiser will be most excellent.
There are some required standards for
boat construction and systems. If you search Title 46 of the CFR you can find all of 'em eventually.
boat construction and systems. If you search Title 46 of the CFR you can find all of 'em eventually.
ISO Really is a Sham
Paul, you are correct with your appraisal of the ISO thing. My company is ISO 9001 approved and it is nothing more than a piece of paper and is used more for marketing. We and most approved never comply... Anyways, I was wondering if there are some type of builder standards so we the buyers of boats could use to evaluate levels of quality. Question? Would Beneteau and all of the other like them have any real measurable standards that the average guy might use to assist with the decision making process?
Paul, you are correct with your appraisal of the ISO thing. My company is ISO 9001 approved and it is nothing more than a piece of paper and is used more for marketing. We and most approved never comply... Anyways, I was wondering if there are some type of builder standards so we the buyers of boats could use to evaluate levels of quality. Question? Would Beneteau and all of the other like them have any real measurable standards that the average guy might use to assist with the decision making process?
Quality
Most standards are for all of the peripheral items, but i dont think there are any standards for the actual hull construction. I think this is what most people refer to when they are speaking of quality. There is lots of useful information that can be had from the manufacturers to help make a decision, but you need to be a naval architect to understand them. As for quality control while laying up the hull, i dont think there is any, and i doubt if there is an independant third party inspector. A new model off the assembly line will always be in question. A model that is several years old will have some kind of history. That is where magazine articles and speaking to other owners comes in handy. I wouldnt put too much stock in magazine articles, including Practical Sailor. Boat specific websites are useful when you look at owners reviews. Even this may not be too helpful because most refuse to believe they bought a dog. What is helpful is the boat specific forums, there you can read of design flaws and other problems owners have in their quest for finding a solution.
Most standards are for all of the peripheral items, but i dont think there are any standards for the actual hull construction. I think this is what most people refer to when they are speaking of quality. There is lots of useful information that can be had from the manufacturers to help make a decision, but you need to be a naval architect to understand them. As for quality control while laying up the hull, i dont think there is any, and i doubt if there is an independant third party inspector. A new model off the assembly line will always be in question. A model that is several years old will have some kind of history. That is where magazine articles and speaking to other owners comes in handy. I wouldnt put too much stock in magazine articles, including Practical Sailor. Boat specific websites are useful when you look at owners reviews. Even this may not be too helpful because most refuse to believe they bought a dog. What is helpful is the boat specific forums, there you can read of design flaws and other problems owners have in their quest for finding a solution.
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