- Status
Of course it's easier to get a loan
Documentation is meant precisely to DOCUMENT a boat's owner and the liens against it, in a way that is sanctioned federally and recognized internationally. A bank that loans against a documented vessel knows that its lien will be visible. This makes it less likely that the owner can do something like take out a loan from another bank, and another, until he has extracted cash far beyond the boat's value. Or if some other bank is foolish enough to do this without checking the boat's documentation, the bank that did record its lien this way gets priority. For $25, you can get an abstract from the CG showing who owns a documented vessel, and what the liens are against it. That's a nice thing to do, if you're thinking about purchasing a boat, so that you know the owner has title, and if there are other parties with claim against the vessel. Just like land, a lien follows the vessel, so if you fail to find this out before buying, you can find yourself in a mess.
Documentation is meant precisely to DOCUMENT a boat's owner and the liens against it, in a way that is sanctioned federally and recognized internationally. A bank that loans against a documented vessel knows that its lien will be visible. This makes it less likely that the owner can do something like take out a loan from another bank, and another, until he has extracted cash far beyond the boat's value. Or if some other bank is foolish enough to do this without checking the boat's documentation, the bank that did record its lien this way gets priority. For $25, you can get an abstract from the CG showing who owns a documented vessel, and what the liens are against it. That's a nice thing to do, if you're thinking about purchasing a boat, so that you know the owner has title, and if there are other parties with claim against the vessel. Just like land, a lien follows the vessel, so if you fail to find this out before buying, you can find yourself in a mess.
Name Change
Rob - If your going to change the name, don't forget to have the proper ceremony. Now where are you going to find that virgin??
Rob - If your going to change the name, don't forget to have the proper ceremony. Now where are you going to find that virgin??
No, it's not redocumentation
If you check the USCG site posted at the first of this string, you will find the forms required for name/hailing port change. If you have a loan on your documented boat and it's filed as a mortgage, you will also have to get the mortgage holder's consent as well. BTW, I think the process takes the same time as documentation, but there are different forms to handle it.
If you check the USCG site posted at the first of this string, you will find the forms required for name/hailing port change. If you have a loan on your documented boat and it's filed as a mortgage, you will also have to get the mortgage holder's consent as well. BTW, I think the process takes the same time as documentation, but there are different forms to handle it.
Documentation
The real reason most owners document thier watercraft is to avoid taxes. It does not provide proof of free hold, lack of liens or other legal status EXCEPT: in the event of a national emergency you are agreeing to allow the government use of your vessel. This grew out of war efforts, as in world war two when private boats were pressed into service in europe to assist in the war efforts. Documentation provided the government with a list of privatly owned and operated boats (long before many states turned to taxing personal craft for the revenue). Such commandeering is most unlikely with smaller powered vessels and any but the largest of sailing ships. What would the US Navy or Merchant Marines do with a Mac 26? Mike.
The real reason most owners document thier watercraft is to avoid taxes. It does not provide proof of free hold, lack of liens or other legal status EXCEPT: in the event of a national emergency you are agreeing to allow the government use of your vessel. This grew out of war efforts, as in world war two when private boats were pressed into service in europe to assist in the war efforts. Documentation provided the government with a list of privatly owned and operated boats (long before many states turned to taxing personal craft for the revenue). Such commandeering is most unlikely with smaller powered vessels and any but the largest of sailing ships. What would the US Navy or Merchant Marines do with a Mac 26? Mike.
Avoid what taxes?
I still pay the State of New York to register my documented boat. I still pay state sales tax when purchasing a documented boat. Maybe things are different in California. Ken Palmer, S/V Water Colors
I still pay the State of New York to register my documented boat. I still pay state sales tax when purchasing a documented boat. Maybe things are different in California. Ken Palmer, S/V Water Colors
Avoid Taxes?
In Texas you still pay the periodic registation taxes regardless of whether the boat is documented or not...personally I undocumented my boat when I purchaed it and simply went with the state registration stickers. It avoids hassled when the lake patrol stops you and doesn't understand the concept of documentation. Calif. with catch on quickly if is hasn't already given their $38B deficit. Arnold with "pump it up!"
In Texas you still pay the periodic registation taxes regardless of whether the boat is documented or not...personally I undocumented my boat when I purchaed it and simply went with the state registration stickers. It avoids hassled when the lake patrol stops you and doesn't understand the concept of documentation. Calif. with catch on quickly if is hasn't already given their $38B deficit. Arnold with "pump it up!"
Is International documentation needed to:
travel to Canada. My H37C is registered in WI and I sail on lake Michigan. If I want to sail up the great lakes into Canadian territory, does my vessel need to be documented ?
travel to Canada. My H37C is registered in WI and I sail on lake Michigan. If I want to sail up the great lakes into Canadian territory, does my vessel need to be documented ?
Canadian Travel
At this time documentation is not required to travel to Canada but they will ask for the state registration along with other stuff like the FCC Radio Station License. Some electronics does not require a license in the US but will in Canada. This is a good opportunity to put a few words to good Americans to please not try "smuggle" in stuff like beer, wine, and spirits. Instead have a good time in the stores looking at what they have and leave some money in your wake. I prefer to charge whenever I can because this leaves a paper trail that analysts can use to see how much tourist money comes in. Canada, at least on the BC side, has excellent butter and marmalade.
At this time documentation is not required to travel to Canada but they will ask for the state registration along with other stuff like the FCC Radio Station License. Some electronics does not require a license in the US but will in Canada. This is a good opportunity to put a few words to good Americans to please not try "smuggle" in stuff like beer, wine, and spirits. Instead have a good time in the stores looking at what they have and leave some money in your wake. I prefer to charge whenever I can because this leaves a paper trail that analysts can use to see how much tourist money comes in. Canada, at least on the BC side, has excellent butter and marmalade.
John Nantz, the FCC doesn't require a VHF license
anymore in the US. I think they stopped that for regular VHF users about 1995. What would you do now?
anymore in the US. I think they stopped that for regular VHF users about 1995. What would you do now?
California is different,you don't need to register
if documented. BUT I believe you must pay a very BIG "personal property" fee on what your boat is worth every year !.....so the $40 NY registration fee every year seems like a deal. Belive me the big states get you one way or another.....nothing is free...;-)
if documented. BUT I believe you must pay a very BIG "personal property" fee on what your boat is worth every year !.....so the $40 NY registration fee every year seems like a deal. Belive me the big states get you one way or another.....nothing is free...;-)
If You Go To Canada A License Is Required
Answering Tom's question re Speaking about a Radio Station license. If the boat has a VHF and doesn't have a "Ships Radio Station License" (FCC Form 559)and someone on board doesn't have a "FCC Radio Operators License" (FCC Form 753) then I guess there is only one option and that's to stay home. The "Ships Radio Station License" says in part: "CONDITIONS OF GRANT GENERAL Subject to the provisions of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, subsequent acts, or treaties, and all rules made by this Commission, and further subject to the terms and conditions of this license, the licensee is granted a station license for the radio transmitting apparatus located on board aircraft or ship for the transmission of radio communcations. This license shall not vest in the licensee any right to operate the station nor any right in the use of frequencies designated in the license beyond the term hereof, nor in any other manner than authorized herein. Neither the license nor the right granted hereunder shall be assigned or otherwise transferred in violation of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended. This license is subject to the right of use of control by the Government of the United States conferred by Section 706 of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended. The frequencies within the designated bands are authorized for use in accordance with Parts 80 or 87 of the Commission's Rules for ship and aircraft, respectively. This license authorizes the operation of the radio station on the specific aircraft or ship identified in the application, or if aircraft or ship is not identified, authorizes operation of the radio station in accordance with the Commission's Rules governing fleet aircraft stations or portable or fleet ship stations. This license authorizes use of transmitters type accepted or type approved by the Commission's Rules to operate in the frequency bands specified on this license in accordance with Parts 80 or 87 of the Commission's Rules for ships and aircraft, respectively...." The FCC Radio Operators License says in part [this is what mine says but there may be a newer version because mine is old]: "Terms and Conditions [back side of license] It is your responsibility to know the laws, treaties, rules, and regulations which currently govern' any station you operate. Do not operate any radio transmitter unless such operation is authorized by a valid radio station license. Operation of an unlicensed radio transmitter is a violation of Section 301 of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, and is punishable by fine and/or imprisonment. As a licensed radio operator, it is illegal for you to: · willfully interfere with any radio communication or signal. · transmit false or deceptive signals or communications by radio. · falsely identify a radio station by transmitting a call sign which has not been assigned by proper authority to that station. · transmit unidentified radio communications or signals without authorization, divulge, publish, or use for your benefit or the benefit of another not entitled thereto, the existence, contents, substance, purport, effect, or meaning of any interstate or foreign communications by radio, other than transmissions intended for the use of the general public, transmissions relating to ships, aircraft, vehicles, or persons in distress, or transmissions by an amateur or citizens band radio operator." Canada and Mexico are foreign countries and international rules apply when visiting and those rules require the appropriate licenses. For some there may be another option and that is entering illegally but I wouldn't recommend it (even though millions of illegals enter our country and they basically get citizen status). As can be seen in the wording for the Ships Radio Station License there are also international treaties involved. I don't know of anyone who has tried to avoid the requirements but there must be a few that have. But like in the US, Canada has different divisions between their departments and what British Columbia does may be different than what, say, Quebec does. My recommendation would be to find out about the requirements, get the appropriate licenses, use them properly, and have a good time visiting.
Answering Tom's question re Speaking about a Radio Station license. If the boat has a VHF and doesn't have a "Ships Radio Station License" (FCC Form 559)and someone on board doesn't have a "FCC Radio Operators License" (FCC Form 753) then I guess there is only one option and that's to stay home. The "Ships Radio Station License" says in part: "CONDITIONS OF GRANT GENERAL Subject to the provisions of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, subsequent acts, or treaties, and all rules made by this Commission, and further subject to the terms and conditions of this license, the licensee is granted a station license for the radio transmitting apparatus located on board aircraft or ship for the transmission of radio communcations. This license shall not vest in the licensee any right to operate the station nor any right in the use of frequencies designated in the license beyond the term hereof, nor in any other manner than authorized herein. Neither the license nor the right granted hereunder shall be assigned or otherwise transferred in violation of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended. This license is subject to the right of use of control by the Government of the United States conferred by Section 706 of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended. The frequencies within the designated bands are authorized for use in accordance with Parts 80 or 87 of the Commission's Rules for ship and aircraft, respectively. This license authorizes the operation of the radio station on the specific aircraft or ship identified in the application, or if aircraft or ship is not identified, authorizes operation of the radio station in accordance with the Commission's Rules governing fleet aircraft stations or portable or fleet ship stations. This license authorizes use of transmitters type accepted or type approved by the Commission's Rules to operate in the frequency bands specified on this license in accordance with Parts 80 or 87 of the Commission's Rules for ships and aircraft, respectively...." The FCC Radio Operators License says in part [this is what mine says but there may be a newer version because mine is old]: "Terms and Conditions [back side of license] It is your responsibility to know the laws, treaties, rules, and regulations which currently govern' any station you operate. Do not operate any radio transmitter unless such operation is authorized by a valid radio station license. Operation of an unlicensed radio transmitter is a violation of Section 301 of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, and is punishable by fine and/or imprisonment. As a licensed radio operator, it is illegal for you to: · willfully interfere with any radio communication or signal. · transmit false or deceptive signals or communications by radio. · falsely identify a radio station by transmitting a call sign which has not been assigned by proper authority to that station. · transmit unidentified radio communications or signals without authorization, divulge, publish, or use for your benefit or the benefit of another not entitled thereto, the existence, contents, substance, purport, effect, or meaning of any interstate or foreign communications by radio, other than transmissions intended for the use of the general public, transmissions relating to ships, aircraft, vehicles, or persons in distress, or transmissions by an amateur or citizens band radio operator." Canada and Mexico are foreign countries and international rules apply when visiting and those rules require the appropriate licenses. For some there may be another option and that is entering illegally but I wouldn't recommend it (even though millions of illegals enter our country and they basically get citizen status). As can be seen in the wording for the Ships Radio Station License there are also international treaties involved. I don't know of anyone who has tried to avoid the requirements but there must be a few that have. But like in the US, Canada has different divisions between their departments and what British Columbia does may be different than what, say, Quebec does. My recommendation would be to find out about the requirements, get the appropriate licenses, use them properly, and have a good time visiting.
True, but 
I have never been asked for my FCC license while cruising in Canada, and have used the radio to call marinas or yacht clubs for overnight dock space. I have even been called by their Coast Guard to receive a message, and no problem just giving the boat name. Of course I cannot advise that you break the law, but my experience is that they look the other way. Ken
I have never been asked for my FCC license while cruising in Canada, and have used the radio to call marinas or yacht clubs for overnight dock space. I have even been called by their Coast Guard to receive a message, and no problem just giving the boat name. Of course I cannot advise that you break the law, but my experience is that they look the other way.
KenOh, ok then if you go to other countries you need
the VHF license. Its really kind of a joke though. The US doesn't expect you to pass any test for it (at least when I got mine in 1992) BUT they do require you to pay that fee. But the good thing was that that license was good for 5 or 10 (?) years. It always felt like the only real reason was for the revenue. You need a commercial radio operator license to operate the following: the vessel carries more than six passengers for hire; or the ship sails to foreign ports, etc. But these days you do NOT need a commercial radio operator license to operate the following: Ship stations operating only on VHF frequencies while sailing on "domestic" voyages.
the VHF license. Its really kind of a joke though. The US doesn't expect you to pass any test for it (at least when I got mine in 1992) BUT they do require you to pay that fee. But the good thing was that that license was good for 5 or 10 (?) years. It always felt like the only real reason was for the revenue. You need a commercial radio operator license to operate the following: the vessel carries more than six passengers for hire; or the ship sails to foreign ports, etc. But these days you do NOT need a commercial radio operator license to operate the following: Ship stations operating only on VHF frequencies while sailing on "domestic" voyages.
No Doc required for travel to Canada
We traveled to Canada with our H40 this summer and did not need to have the documentation HOWEVER our boat is registered with our state (that was required) AND we had our proof of insurance (required as well). They did not ask for FCC registration for our VHF. But we did have to fork over our fruit.... We discovered this: As Canadians living in the US we are NOT ELIGIBLE to document our vessel as we did attempt to do this when we purchased it last year.
We traveled to Canada with our H40 this summer and did not need to have the documentation HOWEVER our boat is registered with our state (that was required) AND we had our proof of insurance (required as well). They did not ask for FCC registration for our VHF. But we did have to fork over our fruit.... We discovered this: As Canadians living in the US we are NOT ELIGIBLE to document our vessel as we did attempt to do this when we purchased it last year.
California tax and registration.
California charges 1% of the boats value each year for personal property tax. I think that they have some type of table that is reduced each year for depreciation. The annual registration fee is $10 for 2 years. Once a boat is documented you no longer need to pay the annual registration fee.
California charges 1% of the boats value each year for personal property tax. I think that they have some type of table that is reduced each year for depreciation. The annual registration fee is $10 for 2 years. Once a boat is documented you no longer need to pay the annual registration fee.
"Required" vs "Asked For"
Going back to the post by Tom S that said the FCC does not require a Ships Radio Station License and his question of "What would I do now?", my response is the same, and that is that for international travel, such as to Canada or Mexico, and I presume all other countries, that licenses are required. When one clears Customs and Immigration they don't always ask the same questions nor ask for the same paperwork. It really depends to depend on the individual with whom you're doing business with that day what happens - what you have to show them, and whether or not your boat gets searched. For first-timers you can almost count on your boat getting searched but this has happened to me several times over the years. We're in the computer and are regular visitors so my border crossing is pretty routine and I've never been denied entry yet. The bottom line, I would say, is you only need the paperwork they ask for, and, they don't ask for everything every time. Fruits, vegetables, alcohol, non-citizens on board, pets, gifts, registration, - they'll ask about every time. Other items, though, are more of a crap shoot. Some times they "wave you through" and other times you get your boat searched, and everything in between. I'll stand by my statement that the Ships Radio Station License and Operators License are required - whether they are "asked for" or not depends on the border crossing situation at the time, and, because they didn't ask for them don't assume they aren't "required". Canada and Mexico are foreign countries and Americans visiting there, I would hope, would respect their laws and customs and represent the US in a respectful, if not dignified, manner. Because something isn't required in the US does not mean it isn't required for entry into that country. Enjoy the new anchorages, marinas, scenery, learn about their history, and leave some money in your wake.
Going back to the post by Tom S that said the FCC does not require a Ships Radio Station License and his question of "What would I do now?", my response is the same, and that is that for international travel, such as to Canada or Mexico, and I presume all other countries, that licenses are required. When one clears Customs and Immigration they don't always ask the same questions nor ask for the same paperwork. It really depends to depend on the individual with whom you're doing business with that day what happens - what you have to show them, and whether or not your boat gets searched. For first-timers you can almost count on your boat getting searched but this has happened to me several times over the years. We're in the computer and are regular visitors so my border crossing is pretty routine and I've never been denied entry yet. The bottom line, I would say, is you only need the paperwork they ask for, and, they don't ask for everything every time. Fruits, vegetables, alcohol, non-citizens on board, pets, gifts, registration, - they'll ask about every time. Other items, though, are more of a crap shoot. Some times they "wave you through" and other times you get your boat searched, and everything in between. I'll stand by my statement that the Ships Radio Station License and Operators License are required - whether they are "asked for" or not depends on the border crossing situation at the time, and, because they didn't ask for them don't assume they aren't "required". Canada and Mexico are foreign countries and Americans visiting there, I would hope, would respect their laws and customs and represent the US in a respectful, if not dignified, manner. Because something isn't required in the US does not mean it isn't required for entry into that country. Enjoy the new anchorages, marinas, scenery, learn about their history, and leave some money in your wake.
Canadian VHF Radio Rules
There is no longer a requirement for a station license. You used to be required to have one (up to about 8 years ago), and it had to be renewed regularly, but no longer. It is recommended to have an operator's license. Very simple to obtain in either the US or Canada. The rule states - "all VHF radio operators are required to have a restricted operator's certificate (ROC) with maritime qualifications". The vast majority of recreational boaters in Canada do not have their operator's licence, and provided they operate their VHF within the guidelines, they don't get hassled. There is national requirement in Canada to have an "Operator of Pleasure Craft Card". This only applies to non-residents operating their pleasure craft in Canadian waters after 45 consecutive days. It now applies to all Canadian operators born after April 1, 1983, all operators of craft under 4M (including PWC and your dinghy), and as of September 15, 2009 - all operators.
There is no longer a requirement for a station license. You used to be required to have one (up to about 8 years ago), and it had to be renewed regularly, but no longer. It is recommended to have an operator's license. Very simple to obtain in either the US or Canada. The rule states - "all VHF radio operators are required to have a restricted operator's certificate (ROC) with maritime qualifications". The vast majority of recreational boaters in Canada do not have their operator's licence, and provided they operate their VHF within the guidelines, they don't get hassled. There is national requirement in Canada to have an "Operator of Pleasure Craft Card". This only applies to non-residents operating their pleasure craft in Canadian waters after 45 consecutive days. It now applies to all Canadian operators born after April 1, 1983, all operators of craft under 4M (including PWC and your dinghy), and as of September 15, 2009 - all operators.
Thanks For the Information Jim!
I stand corrected. Presumably if it isn't required for Canadians it isn't required for foreigners either. I've been going to Canada for many years, including Alaska, and have cleared through various ports of entry, both in Canada and when returning to the US. It seems every port of entry has it's own personality. My statement about the Ships Radio Station License and Operators License was based on learning it "the hard way" - they asked for it. This learning method tends to be more effective than the "book" method. Thanks for the requirements update.
I stand corrected. Presumably if it isn't required for Canadians it isn't required for foreigners either. I've been going to Canada for many years, including Alaska, and have cleared through various ports of entry, both in Canada and when returning to the US. It seems every port of entry has it's own personality. My statement about the Ships Radio Station License and Operators License was based on learning it "the hard way" - they asked for it. This learning method tends to be more effective than the "book" method. Thanks for the requirements update.
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