Is this track of tacks on a lake (no tide) good/ok/bad?

gene_neill · Apr 15, 2017

We haven't splashed our Vega yet, but I can say that those are better tack angles than we can achieve on our Catalina 22!

gene_neill · May 4, 2017

I hope it's typical! Because I'd love to have tracks like that. You mentioned having increased your mast rake, by the way. It has always been my understanding that more rake results in higher pointing, with a side effect of more weather helm. Have you noticed more weather helm since increasing the rake?

tim_klynn · May 4, 2017

That track is impressive, especially for the conditions and sail configuration.It looks like a tacking angle of around 80 degrees, which is better than the fin keel sportboat that I race.Makes for a good argument for a tight rig with rake.You should be racing that boat!I use a program called RaceQs.com to look at my tacks/performance and help with target speeds. It is free and runs on android and apple phones.You can upload the data collected and then use various tools to analyze the track.It is a little buggy. I collect the data with the phone and then look at it later on the PC. Looking at the track on the phone doesn't work so well.If it were my boat, other than being very happy with the performance, I would check if was at my close hauled boat speed target for the legs and also check the wind direction for each leg to eliminate the variables of pinching and wind shifts.Do you know what your rig tension settings and mast rake is? -Tim From: "John Kinsella John.Kinsella@... [AlbinVega]" AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 4, 2017 2:52 AM Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Is this track of tacks on a lake (no tide) good/ok/bad?

Here's a screen grab from yesterday.
dromterry.png

Sailing on the wind till I started tacking at N end of track.

True winds 15-20 knots, gusty at times. I had one reef in the main
and the headsail furled to the first dot.

Again, I'm not looking for kudos just wondering if this is typical?

My impression has been that tacking performance has much improved
since I reinforced the mast support bulkhead and bent the mast back
sightly as advised here.

John V1447 Breakaway

On 16/04/17 07:42, John.Kinsella
John.Kinsella@... [AlbinVega] wrote:

btfag0s · May 4, 2017

I can get tracks like that sometimes .. but I usually need a couple of knots of tide under me to do it

gene_neill · May 4, 2017

John, I have done the exact same thing before, posting tracks of my C22 on sailing discussion websites, and I too was surprised at the lack of responses. One individual actually PM'd me and kindly told me that my sailing training seemed to be lacking, and that I should take more classes. So it became my belief (and still is) that not many people bother to study this subject. But I'm a nerd I suppose, and have been known to enlarge screenshots of my tack angles just to measure them with a protractor.

For what it's worth, the description of the way you tuned your mast indicates that you were inducing "bend", or perhaps more accurately "prebend", rather than rake. Rake is simply the mast's aftward lean, before any bend is added.As far as angles ... I have read people who measure them differently, but the way I see it, each of your tack angles is at least slightly acute, not obtuse. Therefor I would call them (let's just say) 85 degrees, rather than 95, for instance. I have heard what I call 85 degrees described as "275", but this makes no sense to me. The way I see it, we are striving to achieve the highest angle possible, which for even the most modern keelboat is somewhere around 90 - or such is my understanding. But I cower in the shadow of your mathematical prowess, John. I can't add two and two without a calculator and my wife helping, believe me.As an American, I had to look up "bar steward". LOL ... a euphemism?

btfag0s · May 4, 2017

I don't believe you can induce prebend in a stiff masthead rig like the Vega's, you would normally need a three-quarter racing rig to do do something like that.Raking the mast aft is fine, and by reefing the main first you can minimise weather helm - sounds good to me. You've probably also got a clean hull at the beginning of the season, so that can only make things better.I didn't suggest that I didn't believe you, just that I don't sail that efficiently (usually because of a fouled hull, paying more attention to the wildlife, trailing a fishing lure, that sort of stuff),

groundhogyh · May 4, 2017

Um, I think your tacking angle is 180 minus the 80 degrees..

groundhogyh · May 5, 2017

On your drawing, the gps tracks are showing where youve been.
You want to rearrange the tracks mentally, showing where you are going.