Is this the way this should be done?

[Manny]

After peeling off the old spreader boots on my mast, this is what I found. It looks like one of the wires out of some romex was used to keep the shroud in place on the spreader tip. Is this an okay way of doing this?I took a look at some of the boats in my yard and I could only find one without boots, and I couldn't see any sort of wire or other method of the shrouds being bound at the tip (I wish I had my binoculars!!). *popManny

 

[r.w.landau]

Manny, When sailing, If you look close,

you will see your leeward shrouds become slack. without something securing the shroud to the spreader, it would become unattached. I use a Stainless bare wire to secure my 25 O'Days shrouds to the spreader. The boot is to not only keep the wire from tearing the sail, it is also bigger so that the spreader doesn't punch a hole in the Jib.r.w.landau

 

[Robert Gainer]

R.W. is right but

Manny,It looks like someone has jury-rigged the spreader tip. As R.W. has said it is true that you need something to hold the wire to the spreader but if it’s seizing wire the holes are much closer to the end of the spreader. Maybe your tip had a plate with two screws before this and the screws were broken at some point and this is the former owner’s solution. Can you get someone to look at it and see what’s going on? On can you post a picture of the end of the spreader?All the best,Robert Gainer

 

[Alan]

The concern..........

...that Robert is raising is my exact thought. The shroud must be held fast against the spreader tip in order to provide support. Seizing wire alone cannot maintain the shrouds position on the spreader tip. There must be some other support or retainer to hold the shroud in its relative position. Another pic showing the spreader tip from outside is in order.

 

[Scott]

Look at the spreader tips ...

It looks like you have spreaders that are similar to the Kenyon air foil sections. Actually, yours looks similar to mine which is the SP-3. The spreader tip has holes that accept the ss seizing wire that you use to secure the shrouds. Here is a link. http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/Kenyon_Spars/Kenyon_Spreaders/SP3-airfoil.htmlUnless your set up has a similar wire rigged on the under side, it doesn't look very secure to me.I would look to see if your tips accommodate the seizing wire which is the normal set-up for boats such as ours.

 

[Bob7291]

tips

The tip of your spreader should have a notch for the shroud to lie in as it passes over the tip. There should be holes drilled through the tip somewhat inboard of this notch through which you can pass stainless or monel wire, making sure you wrap it around the shroud both above and below the spreader tip. It does not have to be super tight - its purpose, as indicated earlier, is to keep the shroud from falling away from the tip when it is slack. Looks like your boots are well-weathered. Make sure there is drainage at the bottom of the boot so that water can get out and air can get in. Once again, do not rely on the boot to hold the shroud against the tip. What you have appears to be a jack-leg arrangement that probably worked OK, but isn't the best way to do it, to say the least.

 

[White Sail]

I use seizing wire, then rap it in electrical tape and cover it with a rubber spreader boot which I secured with that non-adhesive plastic tape that bonds to itself, have had no problems.

 

[Ken "Dancin Bear"]

Great question. I had no clue

A great question.My C30 has the same set up. I saw these pieces of small wire but did not really understand their use. I had trouble finding large enough boots.I will make sure it is right when the mast goes up in the springThanks for asking the question. The pic you sent tells us exactly what you have too.Happy Sails.Ken

 

[Don12364]

Looks Dodgy to Me

Manny,Your concern is well founded. IMHO yours are dinghy type spreaders.May I suggest that you contemplate the impact of having the mast go over the side.Then, one day somebody will be going up the mast and will stand on the spreaders to help themselves up.It certainly looks as if the original design is as others have suggested but it looks like a disaster waiting to happen to me.Apart from the possibility of the genoa or spinnaker pulling the wire off the end of the spreader - despite the seizing wires, it only needs the spreader to hang down below horizontal and the shroud tension will do the rest and fold the spreader.In times past designers did not pay sufficient attention to the integrity of spreaders, particularly in view of the side loads and bending stresses which masts have to suffer.If I were you I would look to replace the spreader ends with ones which securely attach the shrouds to the spreaders. Later spreader designs have them so it may be possible to contact the mast maker and see what he has.

 

[Robert Gainer]

If you’re asking for opinions

Manny,Thanks for the pictures. It looks like this was original but I have not seen this exact arrangement before. I am used seeing three types of spreader tips. One type holds the wire with a clip. The other has a pin and the upper and lower parts of the shroud are separate and the pin both holds the wire together and into the tip. The third type is what you have but with a twist.Typically a tip like yours has two holes in the tip with one forward and one aft of the shroud. Seizing wire is laced between the holes and around the wire. This arrangement holds the wire so it is both secure in the notch and the tip is kept from sliding on the wire.Your tip has one hole and it’s so far from the wire that I can’t imagine how it can be secure. Doesn’t mean it’s wrong just that I haven’t seen it before and I don’t trust it. If you’re asking for opinions I would say carefully modify it and you might look around the boatyard to get a feel for how most tips are designed and use that as you guide.Good luck and all the best,Robert Gainer

 

[Pete]

My 2 cents worh

not sure from the first picture if the shroud wire is "in the grove" (could just be the angle of the picture?)but if it is, it is most likely OK. the picture looks to show it almost forward of the spreader tip. If it is in the grove so long as the proper tension is keep on it it SHOULD not be a problem. However if it were my boat I would some how "trap" the shroud in the grove so that it would not come out. A simple plate screwed into he spreader tip that would trap the shroud in place would be all that it would take. Just don't trap the shroud wire so that can't move in the grove just trap it so it can't "pop" out of it. Make what ever you do as a repair part of an yearly inspection of the rigging.

 

[Manny]

The shrouds were in the groove

The wire was wrapped above and below the spreader equally and it was tight enough to not allow the shroud to pop out, but it did allow the shroud to slide in relation to the spreader. I will drill to small holes in each tip in the spring and use seizing wire.Thanks for all the info!Manny

 

[Scott]

Drilling holes ...

should be simple enough thru aluminum. Your spreader sure looks the same as mine. Use a 1/8" bit (that is the size hole in mine). Is your mast and all the components Kenyon? If your spreader is the SP-3 you can buy the tips. Pulling them off the end of the spreader may be tricky.I suspected that you had the same "jack-leg" arrangement (as Bob called it) both above and below the tip. Just having one would seem to be extremely risky. I think the seizing wire would make it much more secure but if you are drilling the holes, make sure you smooth out the burrs.I have my mast down and was able to get it home to work on it in the basement this winter. I am finding that the weld that you get from corrosion between the SS components and aluminum is really tough! I had to drill out 2 SS screws because the PB Blaster and impact drivers just were not making any difference. It was really tricky but I drilled a small hole right thru the center of the screw head and down inside the screw enough to free it up so that it could be turned without ruining the tapped hole in the aluminum. I have never had to attempt anything like that before but it worked!I'm having a problem with the shroud tangs at the midway location on the mast. The SS bushings have welded to the aluminum spacer (that is inside the mast) and I can't get them to separate. Spinning the tangs doesn't do anything because they are free. I can't get a grip on the bushings to turn them in opposite directions (on both sides) and I haven't been able to break this free. PB Blaster is not helping and even with a bite with a flat screw driver blade and a hammer with some pretty good whacks won't break this free.I'm beginning to think that drilling out the bushings is my only solution but I don't know how I'm going to grip the other side so it doesn't just spin when the drill bit bites!any thoughts? The bushings are the ones in the Kenyon parts link that I included in my earlier post.

 

[r.w.landau]

Manny, there is nothing wrong with your speader...

That is how it was made. I think the hoky thing is the wire used.It looked like romex or something.I would replace it with rigging wire. I would even install it the same way. I would not tape it. The reason I would not tape it is I have read that when you deprive stainless of oxygen there is a greater chance of it rusting.I would then tape the spreader boot back on.Remember that you don't want to tie off the rigging wire too tight. The shroud should have the ability to slide. The idea is to make it tight enough to stay in the groove. If you try to secure it , the rigging wire will break if the mast is stressed to a great extent.The wire in the picture was probably wound close to the spreader and has been moved to the current position by the mast flexing.r.w.landau

 

[Robert Gainer]

Spreader tip MUST NOT slide on the wire

R.W.The wire will break if you stress it enough no mater what you do. But the spreader tip MUST NOT slide on the shroud under any circumstances. The arrangement of the seizing wire is open to opinion but fixing the tip securely on the wire is not open to discussion.I have always taped my spreader tips but I understand your concern about oxygen starvation (crevice corrosion) and stainless. In the entire time (35 years) I was in the sailboat business I have not seen a problem from using rigging tape but I may have just been lucky so far. I think it has something to do with the lack of the corroding influence from salt that you see in metals underwater. Just a thought and not backed up by any studies. All the best,Robert Gainer

 

[r.w.landau]

Robert, about the spreader sliding is that...

When the spreader is in the horizontal position or a trailer sailor, the shrouds will not be in the precise position. That is why they need the freedom to move.Sometimes we look for the worst or think we are doing the best, when in fact we don't truly know. (Taping the stainless) Thank God for new technology!Robert, that may be a chance to get a Government grant to do a study! r.w.landau

 

[Robert Gainer]

Good point

Good point about the trailer sailor R.W. But is a 27 foot Hunter a trailer sailor. I think any rig larger then a trailer sailor needs the spreader fixed to the wire. I have too many projects going now so I will leave the tape study for someone else. My next project is to take the lines and construction details from a Shad boat that is over 100 years old and draw a set of plans for the construction of a copy that we will build.All the best,Robert Gainer

 

[r.w.landau]

Robert, Allmost all sailboats are rigged in a

horizontal position before they are raised.r.w.landau

 

[Robert Gainer]

True

True and if you have the spreader tip in the wrong place after stepping the mast you need to go up and fix the problem. It doesn’t matter where the mast starts out but it does matter where the mast ends up and letting a spreader slide on the upper is not a good idea and if you let it move enough so that it no longer bisects the angle between the upper and lower portions of the upper shroud you risk collapsing the rig. Sound like a significant problem to me but that’s just me.Some spreaders have a wire to the mast just to hold them up and this is not one of them. Some are hinged at the mast and a clip holds the wire fixed at the tip and this is not one of them. And some are just wired to hold the upper shroud and lock the position of the tip and this is one of them. There are other possibilities and designs but this spreader is designed to be wired into place and the tip is designed to be fixed in position. All the best,Robert Gainer

 

[r.w.landau]

Robert, I am not going to argue,

Believe me or not, I am done.Thanks, r.w.landau