My Hunter 27 was put into the water 3 weeks ago and the Marina did a beautiful job installing a new Harken furling system. The Marina provided me with a written estimate which included parts and labor. The price for the parts were nicely discounted but the total cost was still about $3400. I picked up the new sail for the furling system at the local Doyle sailmaker and was going to install the sail myself to save on the cost of labor if there was an additional charge by the Marina. I spoke to the manager of the Marina and asked him if there would be a charge for installing the new sail or would the labor cost be covered as part of the installation of the new furling system. The Marina manager told me there would be no charge and they want to install it to make sure everything fits and is operating correctly. Well you know what comes next. I received a bill for $55 labor and $20 miscelaneous materials for the installation of the new sail. I questioned the Manager regarding our previous conversation about no additional charge and his answer was "we did do the work". I have been at this marina for 3 years and havehad a good relationship with the manager and other employees, but I still feel that I have been taken advantage of. I am used to doing all of my own work which, as you well know, saves a bundle of money. I would appreciate some advice on how to handle this situation. Do I suck it up and pay it or argue the situation?
Is this normal behavior at the Marina?
- Thread starter mike16498
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Lesson learned
You have, with the sail included, well over $4k in this project. You note that the marina did an excellent job on the installation and that you have a good relationship with the manager. You already have spoken to him about the $55 charge. I would not focus on the $55 amidst all of this. Consider it a lesson learned and next time just do the job yourself. Not worth any more angst in my opinion. Congratulations on your new furler!
You have, with the sail included, well over $4k in this project. You note that the marina did an excellent job on the installation and that you have a good relationship with the manager. You already have spoken to him about the $55 charge. I would not focus on the $55 amidst all of this. Consider it a lesson learned and next time just do the job yourself. Not worth any more angst in my opinion. Congratulations on your new furler!
You've been suckered..
Unfortunately..you been had if you failed to get it in writting.You'll have to pay up on the bill...then,my advice is to let them know you'll never have them do any work on your boat again...then notify the local off ice of The Better buisiness Beurea...then,when your lease is up..find a new Marina.Would also help others if you let everyone in the Marina know how they treated you.This type of behaviour would'nt be tolerated in any other industry or corner of our lives..why do so many just accept it in the Boat World??? Fair Winds>>>David
Unfortunately..you been had if you failed to get it in writting.You'll have to pay up on the bill...then,my advice is to let them know you'll never have them do any work on your boat again...then notify the local off ice of The Better buisiness Beurea...then,when your lease is up..find a new Marina.Would also help others if you let everyone in the Marina know how they treated you.This type of behaviour would'nt be tolerated in any other industry or corner of our lives..why do so many just accept it in the Boat World??? Fair Winds>>>David
I wouldn't go as far as LancerDude...
But the main lesson here is ALWAYS get it in writing. That is the key to making sure you get/got what was contracted. Tell the manager that you took him at his word and he did not come through as promised and you are disappointed. Then walk away. Don't say anything more about the situation/deal. The work is done and you now have a nice furling system. Now to your question. Is this typical? I don't know. But we have boat yards down here where all the work must be done by their people. I can't even paint my own hull to save money. All I can do is give them my boat, give them their money, get my boat back. Good luck and enjoy the new furler.
But the main lesson here is ALWAYS get it in writing. That is the key to making sure you get/got what was contracted. Tell the manager that you took him at his word and he did not come through as promised and you are disappointed. Then walk away. Don't say anything more about the situation/deal. The work is done and you now have a nice furling system. Now to your question. Is this typical? I don't know. But we have boat yards down here where all the work must be done by their people. I can't even paint my own hull to save money. All I can do is give them my boat, give them their money, get my boat back. Good luck and enjoy the new furler.
Maine is Starting...
...to require that the marinas do ALL work on boats. I know two fellas in my sailing club that were asked not to retuern brcause they were doing their own work.
...to require that the marinas do ALL work on boats. I know two fellas in my sailing club that were asked not to retuern brcause they were doing their own work.
Is it worth the $75.00...
...to ruin a good relationship that may be worth it's weight in gold for free advice in the future? Just follow the "in writing" advice, express your displeasure, as indicated, walk away and chalk it all up to a learning experience for the next time.
...to ruin a good relationship that may be worth it's weight in gold for free advice in the future? Just follow the "in writing" advice, express your displeasure, as indicated, walk away and chalk it all up to a learning experience for the next time.
Really Paul???
Is there pending legislation of some sort? I know of at least 5 yards that have no problem with you doing your own work and have not heard otherwise. Now I have heard of people getting kicked out because they sanded their bottoms and surrounding boats got a nice coat of new color to their boats but I find it unusual for a yard to turn away customers for doing their own work. With the economy in the sh!++er, I would tend to think they want to keep customers. Which yards?
Is there pending legislation of some sort? I know of at least 5 yards that have no problem with you doing your own work and have not heard otherwise. Now I have heard of people getting kicked out because they sanded their bottoms and surrounding boats got a nice coat of new color to their boats but I find it unusual for a yard to turn away customers for doing their own work. With the economy in the sh!++er, I would tend to think they want to keep customers. Which yards?
Thanks for the advice
I appreciate the good advice that I have gotten regarding this situation. I realize that the main focus here is to get out there and sail and forget about the minutia. It is now easier to put the situation in its proper perspective. Although the job has been done well, they still have a dissatisfied customer over a few bucks that probably doesn't represent a hill of beans to either one of us. I am a former business owner (retired)in the service business that knows full well the cost of obtaining a new customer. At the stroke of a pen, or a simple comment you can lose that customer. Thanks again. Mike
I appreciate the good advice that I have gotten regarding this situation. I realize that the main focus here is to get out there and sail and forget about the minutia. It is now easier to put the situation in its proper perspective. Although the job has been done well, they still have a dissatisfied customer over a few bucks that probably doesn't represent a hill of beans to either one of us. I am a former business owner (retired)in the service business that knows full well the cost of obtaining a new customer. At the stroke of a pen, or a simple comment you can lose that customer. Thanks again. Mike
Free Ice
I'd just be happy it's all done and done right...and then take my ice free for the season and call it a wash!
I'd just be happy it's all done and done right...and then take my ice free for the season and call it a wash!
Yes, Tim.
I am heading to MYC this year for that reason. A counterpart of mine has done some research and only found MYC on Casco Bay that allows people to work on their own boats. (it may be different further downeast) my two friends are on Casco Bay (Eastern Portion). Maine is getting tougher on environmental issues/runoff, so it may be becoming an insurance regulation at this point. It is only one yard that stopped them. Another couple has been told they can't, but they are on a mooring and don't like to do it anyway.
I am heading to MYC this year for that reason. A counterpart of mine has done some research and only found MYC on Casco Bay that allows people to work on their own boats. (it may be different further downeast) my two friends are on Casco Bay (Eastern Portion). Maine is getting tougher on environmental issues/runoff, so it may be becoming an insurance regulation at this point. It is only one yard that stopped them. Another couple has been told they can't, but they are on a mooring and don't like to do it anyway.
$3400 to put on a furler???!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Holy Cats! I'm in the wrong business. I could replace my income doing that about 5-6 times a month.
Holy Cats! I'm in the wrong business. I could replace my income doing that about 5-6 times a month.
Maybe ask for some merchandise ...
I would complain a little more and try a little negotiation. Maybe they have something in the store that you could ask for like some new fenders or a halyard or something just to let them know that you feel mistreated and they could offer something to make you feel better about the charge.
I would complain a little more and try a little negotiation. Maybe they have something in the store that you could ask for like some new fenders or a halyard or something just to let them know that you feel mistreated and they could offer something to make you feel better about the charge.
I agree with Bill..
$3400.00 is very high for a Harken furler on a 27 Hunter. In contrast I installed a MK IV unit 1 last season, on my 36 footer, with an extra extrusion, and it took me about 6 hours to assemble and install it. Total supplies, including a new head stay were $1742.00 (which is a relatively good deal). A unit zero is the proper size for your boat and should run between $1000.00, a low end good deal, and $1350.00 a high full retail West Marine price, plus about $300.00 for a new head stay (max). Even at $1350.00 + $300.00 that's only about $1650.00 in materials. That means either your yard guys are total fools and it took them five days to install it or they charge about $291.00 per hour labor if you figure I assembled and installed one as a non-professional DIYer in six hours. Even if we give them a full day of 8 hours that's still about $218.00 per hour. Unless you had to step and un-step or haul step and un-step/step I can't figure out for the life of me how a $1300.00 furler and a head stay costs $3400.00?? P.S. You really should "suck it up" and pay the bill and next time read the instructions and do the install your self it's quite easy.. P.S.S. Paul I know of no boat yards in Maine that totally forbid DIY. Most yards up here can't keep up with the boats they do service so they are glad to let you DIY and still get your 2k+ for haul, launch, store, shrink and re-launch. At my yard it's currently a 2 year wait for Awlgrip and a they are already booked for next winter for bottom jobs etc... Strouts Point is the only one I know of that limits what you can and can't do but they can only store about 40 boats so with that number they can keep up. As for bottom work my yards rules are tarp and dustless sander. Heck, they will even rent you one...
$3400.00 is very high for a Harken furler on a 27 Hunter. In contrast I installed a MK IV unit 1 last season, on my 36 footer, with an extra extrusion, and it took me about 6 hours to assemble and install it. Total supplies, including a new head stay were $1742.00 (which is a relatively good deal). A unit zero is the proper size for your boat and should run between $1000.00, a low end good deal, and $1350.00 a high full retail West Marine price, plus about $300.00 for a new head stay (max). Even at $1350.00 + $300.00 that's only about $1650.00 in materials. That means either your yard guys are total fools and it took them five days to install it or they charge about $291.00 per hour labor if you figure I assembled and installed one as a non-professional DIYer in six hours. Even if we give them a full day of 8 hours that's still about $218.00 per hour. Unless you had to step and un-step or haul step and un-step/step I can't figure out for the life of me how a $1300.00 furler and a head stay costs $3400.00?? P.S. You really should "suck it up" and pay the bill and next time read the instructions and do the install your self it's quite easy.. P.S.S. Paul I know of no boat yards in Maine that totally forbid DIY. Most yards up here can't keep up with the boats they do service so they are glad to let you DIY and still get your 2k+ for haul, launch, store, shrink and re-launch. At my yard it's currently a 2 year wait for Awlgrip and a they are already booked for next winter for bottom jobs etc... Strouts Point is the only one I know of that limits what you can and can't do but they can only store about 40 boats so with that number they can keep up. As for bottom work my yards rules are tarp and dustless sander. Heck, they will even rent you one...
Mike
I have a business in Glen Cove so I'm local to the N.Shore,which marina are you in? Don't ya hate getting hosed, the manager is used to dealing with people in the neighborhood with deep pockets so if he can get away with it he will. Even though he said "we did do the work" your reply should be "that was part of the original estimate" its not like they did addl. work on something else BTW was the 3400 including the new sail? Email me and I'll turn you on to my neighbor in Glen Cove cause he's in the sailboat supply business
I have a business in Glen Cove so I'm local to the N.Shore,which marina are you in? Don't ya hate getting hosed, the manager is used to dealing with people in the neighborhood with deep pockets so if he can get away with it he will. Even though he said "we did do the work" your reply should be "that was part of the original estimate" its not like they did addl. work on something else BTW was the 3400 including the new sail? Email me and I'll turn you on to my neighbor in Glen Cove cause he's in the sailboat supply business
Local sailmaker/rigger
This is why you buy your sails locally. Mine installed my Profurl last season for free. It took them all of 4 hours. And that was because they had to go back to the shop to get a longer toggle for the massive chainplate on my Ericson.
This is why you buy your sails locally. Mine installed my Profurl last season for free. It took them all of 4 hours. And that was because they had to go back to the shop to get a longer toggle for the massive chainplate on my Ericson.
don't even think about paying that guy.....
you've already been hosed once by overpaying for the furling unit, unless the sail was included. As far as getting it in writing.... well, he has to follow the same rule. Did he give you an estimate, verbal or in writing? Absolutely not... you did not authorize any kind of paid work to be done. Let him prove his case. By the way, when did bending on a headsail become "working on the boat" Check your furling unit, it has a twin groove foil, and is designed to be used as a racing foil also.... which means the headsails can be easily changed. The truth is, the job is not complete until the sail is bent on and the furling unit checked. So the manager was correct when he told you that there would be no charge. Hold him to his word.... do not relent.
you've already been hosed once by overpaying for the furling unit, unless the sail was included. As far as getting it in writing.... well, he has to follow the same rule. Did he give you an estimate, verbal or in writing? Absolutely not... you did not authorize any kind of paid work to be done. Let him prove his case. By the way, when did bending on a headsail become "working on the boat" Check your furling unit, it has a twin groove foil, and is designed to be used as a racing foil also.... which means the headsails can be easily changed. The truth is, the job is not complete until the sail is bent on and the furling unit checked. So the manager was correct when he told you that there would be no charge. Hold him to his word.... do not relent.
If they told you...
it was no cost... then it is no cost. With the price of that furler... it should include bending on the sail to make sure everything is O.K. As a matter of fact... it probably included the cost of the sail!
it was no cost... then it is no cost. With the price of that furler... it should include bending on the sail to make sure everything is O.K. As a matter of fact... it probably included the cost of the sail!
Weigh all the information
My 2 cents is that you need to weigh the $75 against other facts. If in general the marina has been decent and has cheaper winter storage fees than other convenient marinas nearby I'd eat the $75 and either get firm quotes for everything or take my repair work elsewhere in the future. Bob
My 2 cents is that you need to weigh the $75 against other facts. If in general the marina has been decent and has cheaper winter storage fees than other convenient marinas nearby I'd eat the $75 and either get firm quotes for everything or take my repair work elsewhere in the future. Bob
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