Is This Just Outdated Advice?

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GorillaToast

GorillaToast

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Sep 2, 2011
1,041
Hunter 27 Cherubini Alum Creek State Park
I need to buy new sails for my Catalina 22. I want the mainsail to be loose-footed, roachless, and battenless. I have researched this and based on my sailing preference, this seems the best way to go.

While doing my research, I read in at least 2 books, and in several sailing forum threads, that roachless/battenless sail cost less because there is less labor and materials involved in their manufacture. Today, I requested a quote from one of the high volume / discount sailmakers, and it turned out to be a whopping $13 less than a standard-battened, full-roached, footed sail.

Is the advice I've been reading just plain outdated? Do manufacturers no longer price their goods based on what it costs to make them + a fair margin?

Rant over. Thanks for listening.

Bill
 
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Squidd

Squidd

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Sep 26, 2011
890
AMF Alcort Paceship PY26 Washburn Wi. Apostle Islands
Probably just the law of supply and demand...

They are supplying it, you want it, they'll demand whatever they can get outta you...
 
S

Steve Dion

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Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
You may be running into a situation where these high volume mfg. are order a boat load of these off the shelf sails and put them in inventory. Your sail is custom because there is probably 1 or 2 people that would want a sail like this (we call that CUSTOM).

Do you want a sail without all these features or are you only shopping price.

If you decision is price, I suggest that you look at used. You can get a good quality used sail for a lot less.
 
RichH

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
One has to consider that in this very depressed economy most suppliers will deep discount .... just to keep their shop open and busy and with little margin/profit; a buyers market.
 
Joe

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,165
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
GorillaToast said:
I need to buy new sails for my Catalina 22. ....
.....
Is the advice I've been reading just plain outdated? Do manufacturers no longer price their goods based on what it costs to make them + a fair margin?

Bill
Click to expand
Any custom built sail will cost more...........when you deal with a big volume house, because they mass produce from set patterns, or order from overseas lofts.... If you're dead set on the sail you describe......which would not be good for resale, IMHO.... I would seek out small, local sailmakers for quotes. Or.... if it's just price... buy one off the rack from an online supplier such as www.thesailwarehouse.com
 
Benjamin Disralei

Benjamin Disralei

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Jun 7, 2011
83
Beneteau Oceanis 361 Marmong Cove, Australia
Hi Bill

Best advice I can give you. request a quote from www.fareastsails.com if you have not already done so. fellow Australian cruiser friends have these very sails on the yachts and rave about them and yes they leave the competition for dead. Should you have any reservations as to this company check www.seabreeze.com.au and see what fellow sailors have to say.

Benjamin
 
Bill Roosa

Bill Roosa

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Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
While I'd agree generally that a custom sail will cost more, in this case it is just the leaving off of certian items and not an addition so they would have to build those parts for all sail and then stop and not add the battons (roach would be cut off/never even added in the layout step). so they are saving some small amount of material, the battens themselves and the labor to sew them on.
This amounts to having a basic sail instead of a standard (or custom) one IMHO.
 
GorillaToast

GorillaToast

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Sep 2, 2011
1,041
Hunter 27 Cherubini Alum Creek State Park
Bill Roosa said:
While I'd agree generally that a custom sail will cost more, in this case it is just the leaving off of certian items and not an addition so they would have to build those parts for all sail and then stop and not add the battons (roach would be cut off/never even added in the layout step). so they are saving some small amount of material, the battens themselves and the labor to sew them on.
This amounts to having a basic sail instead of a standard (or custom) one IMHO.
Click to expand
This is the logic that was espoused by certain well-known authors. It seems their counsel doesn't really apply to the "real" world as we know it today.

I'm not just trying to get the price down by requesting those features; that is what I want for sailing performance. And before this thread devolves into a debate, let me just say that it seems the sailing community is split about 50/50 on the advantages or lack thereof of roachless/battenless sails.
 
Tim R.

Tim R.

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May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
GorillaToast said:
.... And before this thread devolves into a debate, let me just say that it seems the sailing community is split about 50/50 on the advantages or lack thereof of roachless/battenless sails.
Click to expand
Better performance huh? Show me one racing boat that has a mainsail with no roach.
 
A

alexco38

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Sep 25, 2008
1,096
CS 30 Toronto
You don't have to slide the batten into the pocket if you so desired.

Just like don't turn on the stereo if you don't want it in the car.
 
Maine Sail

Maine Sail

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Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
GorillaToast said:
that is what I want for sailing performance.And before this thread devolves into a debate, let me just say that it seems the sailing community is split about 50/50 on the advantages or lack thereof of roachless/battenless sails.
Click to expand
Performance? Really? Any good credible sources as to the "performance" benefit? ;)

You would not catch me without roach or battens unless taking advantage of the simplicity of an in-mast furler on a boat designed and drawn for a roachless/battenless furling main. But, even then, having owned one, you still give up performance.......
 
Kermit

Kermit

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Jul 31, 2010
5,669
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
Try FX Sails. www.fxsails.com or 888-946-8242 Ask for Bill. I'm pretty sure he'll answer but if not, ask for him. Tell him the guy from Sumter, SC with the state flag spinnaker recommended him.
 
T

tommays

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Oct 2, 2006
1,517
Jboat J24 commack
I got the Hood Stoboom with one of those roachless and battenless mainsails and its really nice to roll it up and down in 12 seconds :)

BUT the performace SUCKS and thats being nice :(

But we only daysail and it still gest us were we need to go :)

I cant believe and off the shelf Catalina 22 sail would not work GREAT ?
 
Maine Sail

Maine Sail

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Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
tommays said:
I got the Hood Stoboom with one of those roachless and battenless mainsails and its really nice to roll it up and down in 12 seconds :)

BUT the performace SUCKS and thats being nice :(

But we only daysail and it still gest us were we need to go :)

I cant believe and off the shelf Catalina 22 sail would not work GREAT ?
Click to expand
With the Stoboom you should be able to have both battens and a roach. Why did you not go that direction? Was it an older one with the narrower opening?
 
JVB

JVB

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Jan 26, 2006
270
Schock Wavelength 24 Lake Murray, SC
It's entertaining when someone so smart that they know better than sailors with a few years or with decades of experience comes along and has to learn the hard way.
 
Maine Sail

Maine Sail

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Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
JVB said:
It's entertaining when someone so smart that they know better than sailors with a few years or with decades of experience comes along and has to learn the hard way.
Click to expand
I think the problem is with the internet and the fact that you can read what ever you want to, that "supports" what you think you want...

It is as shocking to me, as you, but I would like to see the "sources" to get a better understanding of how he came to this decision of a roachless/battenless main and that it is split 50/50 in the sailing community.

Personally I don't think it is even split 99% to 1%, but I am always willing to see and find out where the "data" comes from..

I'll be curious to see the sources for the 50/50 split and the performance arguments "for" battenless/roachless sails, on a boat not specifically designed for it..
 
Ed Schenck

Ed Schenck

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Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
Call Joe Waters. He makes Catalina 22 sails and races them. He is a past National Champion and teaches a course on C-22 and C-25 sailing. Ask him if there is a difference. I would call but I already know the answer. :)
 
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