Is this cam cleat acceptable for our boat?

shemandr · Jul 24, 2017

My problem with the existing cam cleat is that it appears you need to re-reave it after every tack. That is unmanageable. I don't know how you get a good release of the jib sheet like that. I would just use the self tailers. As hewebb said maybe the existing "Cam Cleats" are for spin sheets. You like to be able to lock them and release them as needed for the pre-set. Seems to make sense. Usually there is a turning block and we tie a stopper knot. For the jib sheets I would think if you don't want to use the self tailer (And there are good reasons not to), you could add a jam cleat or cam cleat without a bail like this:
https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn...MI0uuV_oei1QIVnbjACh0ZFg5PEAQYASABEgJtgPD_BwE
Size it to your line. It will be downstream of the winch so it should never see a full load. Placement is critical. You should be able to release by pulling up from the high side and it needs to run fair from the winch.
Speaking of weird rigging, I was sailing on a C&C 115 recently and the main sheet is double ended with each end going through a line stopper mounted on the side of the traveler and then to a winch on each side. I wasn't going to open and close the stoppers on each tack, so I left the stopper open and just kept each end on its respective winch. Maybe the stoppers are to free the winch for re-assignment. That's all I could imagine.

Joe · Jul 24, 2017

Most everybody knows this... but I hope it's okay to mention it anyway... just in case.
Your headsail sheet winches should not use line captive devices on the cleats. That means no fairleads on the cam, clam, vee, or jam cleats. No mechanical captive devices such as clutches or the spinlock snappers.. etc. The cleat should never be placed between winch and sail....The sheet runs from the sail to the lead block, and perhaps a turning/foot block, directly to the winch. WHY???? you must be able to cast off your headsail sheets quickly and completely....
With a self tailing winch... it is entirely normal to have a dedicated cleat, in addition to the cleating jaws on the winch. It's much faster and sometimes more convenient to operate the winch as standard, non ST, device. Especially if your not grinding with the handle....
Gybing single handed is one of those times when you might find your self controlling both sheets at the same time... not grinding, under minimal load with just a couple wraps on the drum... allowing you to cleat and un cleat both sheets from the helm ...
When you are adjusting trim under load... the self tailing winch is a huge advantage, especially for single or short handed crew... when easing the sheet... the proper techniques is to un cleat the line and use your hand flat on the wraps against the drum to control the amount of release.
If you find it difficult to trim this way when single handing.... you should invest in an auto/tiller pilot.

PS Unlike sheet winches, it is common practice to install cleats and clutches ahead of the Halyard winches... mainly so the winch can serve a number of other control lines.

Gunni · Jul 24, 2017

good point Joe, I regularly have to untie the stopper knot on Genoa sheet bitter ends when I go aboard a strange boat. And I have cut a friend's Genoa sheet when their stopper knot jammed a sheet car.

jssailem · Jul 24, 2017

Never had to cut stopper knots. (simple figure 8 knot - easily opened even when wet)

The knots are there on my boat to stop the long line from going under the boat and fouling the prop. Then again my sheets are not short. When the sheets get to the stopper knot the sail is flapping in the wind. If it is flapping and needs to be controlled and not to propel the boat, then the sail is coming down, and for sure I do not want the sheet running under the boat.

Jackdaw · Jul 24, 2017

Joe said:
Most everybody knows this... but I hope it's okay to mention it anyway... just in case.
Your headsail sheet winches should not use line captive devices on the cleats. That means no fairleads on the cam, clam, vee, or jam cleats. No mechanical captive devices such as clutches or the spinlock snappers.. etc. The cleat should never be placed between winch and sail....The sheet runs from the sail to the lead block, and perhaps a turning/foot block, directly to the winch. WHY???? you must be able to cast off your headsail sheets quickly and completely....
.

Joe this is not correct. I agree you have to be smart about their applications, but those spinlock locking fairleads are used as headsail sheet control devices on 1000s of high performance boats. I've seen the on First 367s, First 40.7s, First 40, SunFast 360s, Farr 395, etc etc.

The locking cam remains open and the line runs free unless the cam is tripped over, which will hold the line. This will let you use the winch for whatever purpose you need.

The biggest use in racing is setting your headsail out when coming onto the leeward mark. While going downwind you hoist your headsail, and trim to a mark on the sheet and lock the lead. Then you can continue to use the winch for the spin until the kite comes down just before the mark. When you start your turn you don't have to worry about the headsail sheet as the sail powers up in the turn.

Why its on a Hunter 27-3 is a different story....

Jackdaw · Jul 24, 2017

jssailem said:
Never had to cut stopper knots. (simple figure 8 knot - easily opened even when wet)

Except when it is pressed HARD against the backside of a clutch.

Jackdaw · Jul 24, 2017

Re gybing.

Remember that the PO has a non-overlapping rig.

When single handing on these types of boats, FORGET THE HEADSAIL - DO IT LAST.

Drive deep with the tiller between your legs.
When DDW throw the mainsheet over. (or trim to center then ease; your choice)
Come up 10 degrees.
Lock the tiller for 10 seconds.

The jib will be happily backwinded, not pressed against anything and waiting for you to come forward. Load the new leeward winch with the slack on the still lazy sheet, and take it in while you ease the windward one. Set to your expected final angle, then go back to your main/tiller.

Joe · Jul 24, 2017

Jackdaw said:
Joe this is not correct. I agree you have to be smart about their applications, .......................................................................
Why its on a Hunter 27-3 is a different story....

With all due respect to your racing expertise... my comments were shadowed towards the somewhat less experienced, or equipped, sailors in our group. As we evolve in our sailing there are certainly new things to learn and apply to enhance performance... thanks for bringing that out.

Jackdaw · Jul 27, 2017

Joe said:
With all due respect to your racing expertise... my comments were shadowed towards the somewhat less experienced, or equipp

VT Fitz said:

It's not on my 27-3. That photo was from my prior H23.5. I loved using those SpinLocks, and the genesis of this thread was to inquire if they'd be appropriate on a 27-3.

Click to expand

ed, sailors in our group. As we evolve in our sailing there are certainly new things to learn and apply to enhance performance... thanks for bringing that out.

Well it depends. That part serves two tasks

1) It a deck-level fairlead, that can turn a sheet run around other deck hardware.
2) Its a sheet lock, needed only if you use your winch for other purposes. (quick/racing spin/jib switches)

If you never do #2, a simple deck level turning block will be fine. If you also have a fair from from your jib car to your winch, you don't need anything.

As Joe notes they do introduce complexly, cost, weight, deck penetrations, and can foul lines. No need to add them if you don't really need them!

Is this cam cleat acceptable for our boat?

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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