Is this cam cleat acceptable for our boat?

[VT Fitz]

On our new-to-us 2007 Hunter 27-3, I’m really hating the jib sheet cleats. Maybe I don’t know how to use them correctly, but if you trim in, the cleat doesn’t catch when you ease off and let pressure back on the sheet, and I have to lean out and push it back into place. As an alternative, I’ve been using the self-tailing winch, but without the handle, I can’t easily trim it in, and to ease it, I have to unwind it of the self-tail, then rewind when it’s right. Basically, again, I’m hating this arrangement.

Here’s what I got now:



On our prior Hunter 23.5, the first thing I did was replace the crappy OEM jam cleat for the jib sheets with SpinLock Cam Cleats. Loved them! Easy to trim, cleat, and release. So I’m looking to do the same on our H27-3, but am concerned more much more pressure the headsail generates than our old H23.5.

I’m thinking about this model, which is advertised “suitable for bigger boat”:
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|2358482|2358485&id=649023

It’s rated at a 440 lbs working load. I have no reference for what that means and if it’s within the range of our H27-3 headsail.

Our old H23.5 manual says total sail area is 235 sq. ft.. The jib is probably about 40% of that, so let’s call it 100 sq. ft.

The new H27-3 has a total sail area of 369 sq. ft.. For argument sake, let’s say the jib is 40% of that, but it’s probably less, but let’s err on the larger side. So let’s call it 150 sq. ft..

Would that generate a load of more than 400 lbs?

 

[Jackdaw]

That's not a cam cleat. that is a fairlead block with a line-lock or genoa-lock on it. It is designed to run free (be unlocked) 99% of the time, and you hand lock it anytime you need the winch for another purpose while its also sheeting. If you never do that, most people will tape them open, because they have a nasty habit of closing and locking when you don't want them to.

On a 27 foot boat, congratulations you are beyond the range of a camcleat holding your headsail sheets. Those should be on your self-tailing winch. Boats with non-self tailers will use a cam to hold the sheet, but AFTER the winch, not before (or instead of it.

 

[plenny7]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but why not get a winch handle and use the self-tailing winch? Easy to trim with the handle, particularly if it's a 2-speed winch. To ease off I just unwrap the sheet just to the ramp and slowly let the jib out until it's where I want to to be, the re-tail it.

 

[VT Fitz]

Thanks, jd, for the reply and identifying the fairlead block for me. I knew it wasn't a cam cleat, but I wasn't sure what to call it.

I've been wondering what I'm "supposed" to do, and you've made that clearer for me. So there's no easy way to ease the sheet without unwrapping it from the self-tail, and if you want to sheet it in, you need the winch handle. Am I getting that right?

Kinda makes soloing difficult...

 

[Jackdaw]

Thanks, jd, for the reply and identifying the fairlead block for me. I knew it wasn't a cam cleat, but I wasn't sure what to call it.

I've been wondering what I'm "supposed" to do, and you've made that clearer for me. So there's no easy way to ease the sheet without unwrapping it from the self-tail, and if you want to sheet it in, you need the winch handle. Am I getting that right?

Kinda makes soloing difficult...

Yep thats the deal.

But regarding soloing, you're kinda in luck. Because your boat is fractional and flies an non-overlapping headsail, just trim the headsail and play the main while driving.

This is the way 99% of modern solo sailors sail. The jib will take care of its-self, and will not overpower the boat in puffs.

 

[Jackdaw]

Like this: trim the headsail based on course and wind speed, then drive. One hand on the tiller, one on the mainsheet.

 

[VT Fitz]

It's like learning to sail all over again! Thanks for sharing the secrets!

 

[jssailem]

VT. That is a nice self tailing winch. A 30 has plenty of power to handle the sails on your boat.
JD gave you the clues.
I solo sail with a similar rig. When setting the jib, 3-4 wraps of the jib sheet on the winch drawing in the sail by hand. Around the self tailor, then crank the winch till the sail is set. You can control the tiller between your legs, get an autopilot to hold the course or use a line wrapped around the tiller to hold the course whike you set the jib.
Once set you settle back with a hand on the tiller and one on the main sheet. If you need to ease the jib than lock the main sheet, configure the tiller and unwrap the top wrap around the winch. Holding the jib sheet in one hand and the other open and thumb sticking up ease the jib sheet on the drum a bit.
When happy just wrap the jib sheet in the self tailor and return to your steering position.
Go out and play with the rig a few time in moderate breezes and you will quickly get the hang of it. The self tailing winches will open up a whole new world for you.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I'm really old school. I just use a horn cleat, set it and forget it until something changes. No self-tailing, either.

 

[jssailem]

But Scott your young and strong. Able to leap small dogs in a single bound. A horny cleat needs not self tailing.

 

[Meriachee]

@Jackdaw ! Really? What's with this wrinkle business, and in BOTH sails? tsk tsk.

 

[Jackdaw]

@Jackdaw ! Really? What's with this wrinkle business, and in BOTH sails? tsk tsk.

;^)

The breeze was forecast for around 5 knots (and was) as I pulled out. So I had everything soft and the rig tuned loose as well. When its really light I'm OK with some horizontal wrinkles. But in the channel where that picture as taken, it piped up to 12 and that picture was taken before I could get to the cunningham and the backstay. That's the trick with soloing. You have to pick your timings!

 

[jssailem]

You have to pick your timings!

Now if you could only pick the photographers timing.

 

[Gunni]

Fitz, there are starving sailors up in Vermont who would love to have a proper jib sheet fairlead block on their well used boat, so you need to use and appreciate that thing because not everyone is as fortunate as you!

 

[VT Fitz]

Gunni, my "homeport" might be VT, but I actually sail off Mystic CT!

 

[jeffclown]

@Jackdaw ! Really? What's with this wrinkle business, and in BOTH sails? tsk tsk.

What's really remarkable is that Jackdaw was soloing, coming out of the channel, setting sails in shifting wind, and flying the drone to take that picture.

 

[hewebb]

Is it possible some PO used that for spin sheets?

 

[DougM]

Being an old dinghy sailor, I have never quite gotten over the idea of never ever cleating the mainsheet. A cleated mainsheet was an open invitation to take an unscheduled swim in a puff.

 

[Jackdaw]

What's really remarkable is that Jackdaw was soloing, coming out of the channel, setting sails in shifting wind, and flying the drone to take that picture.

I'm a busy guy!

 

[Jackdaw]

Is it possible some PO used that for spin sheets?

Hopefully no. The design of the locking fairlead block allows for a very narrow range of vertical angles for the incoming line before they will chafe of the housing. They assume the line will be on the same plane as the device, in other words a deck mounted block, and not coming down from the clew of a spinnaker.