Is There An Alternative To Cotter Pins For ...

[rardiH36]

... Standing Rigging Turnbuckles?

Reason for asking is that I want to experiment with my rake angle and that I will leave the standing shrouds/stays in each relative length/tension for several outings. Too long leave the turnbuckle threads unsecured. Also takes an outing or two more to do final tension adjustments.

Properly bending, then unbending all 14 cotter pins each time is a pain.

So I was wondering if anyone knows of a cotter pin alternative? (I haven't encountered one.) Granted, cotter pins are tried-and-true since almost forever, but seems to me that for frequently adjusted applications something more practical (but safe) must be out there.

I suppose I could do just a small bend to the cotter pins. Just enough so they won't slip out, but then will enable easy removal and re-insertion each time. Then eventually do the proper bending when I am satisfied with the tuning.

 

[Bob S]

Rardi,

I believe Roger Long recommended using stainless welding wire bent in a U shape that can be aligned to match the two holes and easily bent inward after inserting. I've also heard rings work for some folks but not on my turnbuckles. Last, there is someone on the C30 Yahoo group that has successfully tapped them and uses a SST socket head cap screw. Suggest experimenting.

 

[dziedzicmj]

Certainly one option is split rings. But they require some work to set them up and remove. And there is a wrap pin product from Sherman Johnson (http://www.pyacht.com/johnson-wrap-pins.htm or http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...0001&storeId=11151&productId=312993&langId=-1), but if you need many of them, the cost might be prohibitive.

If the split rings don't work on your turn-buckles, the wrap pins, probably, won't either.

Marek
C270, in Ottawa

 

[rardiH36]

Rardi,

I believe Roger Long recommended using stainless welding wire bent in a U shape that can be aligned to match the two holes and easily bent inward after inserting. I've also heard rings work for some folks but not on my turnbuckles. Last, there is someone on the C30 Yahoo group that has successfully tapped them and uses a SST socket head cap screw. Suggest experimenting.

Bob:

Interesting suggestions. I had contemplated a "safety pin" approach which seems to be along the lines of Roger Long's solution. But I didn't know what material would work. I'll call around to see if someone local has stainless steel welding wire. Thanks.

(Tapping the cotter pin holes to accept screws/bolts of some sort is a bit more than I want to tackle. And I shudder to think about possibly breaking off a thin tap (maybe 1/8") inside the hole while tapping!)

rardi

 

[Tim R.]

I suppose I could do just a small bend to the cotter pins. Just enough so they won't slip out, but then will enable easy removal and re-insertion each time. Then eventually do the proper bending when I am satisfied with the tuning.

Sounds like a plan.

 

[Ted]

Is there an alternative to cotter pins

You can use High Speed Pins (scar pins). They are basically a cotter pin attached to a piece of Velcro. There is no need to bend the cotter pin because the Velcro holds it in place. You can make them yourself or purchase them at the following site. They are fast and easy to use and reuse.

http://www.apsltd.com/c-230-clevispinsquickpinsringdings.aspx

 

[rardiH36]

Certainly one option is split rings. But they require some work to set them up and remove. And there is a wrap pin product from Sherman Johnson (http://www.pyacht.com/johnson-wrap-pins.htm or http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...0001&storeId=11151&productId=312993&langId=-1), but if you need many of them, the cost might be prohibitive.

If the split rings don't work on your turn-buckles, the wrap pins, probably, won't either.

Marek
C270, in Ottawa

Marek:

Several years ago I did try split rings. Found not enough room between the turnbuckle body and the thread bolt for the ring to fit. What would work is a very large diameter split ring, but with thin wire. These could go through the hole but around the outside of the turnbuckle. But I don't think such a ring is made.

The wrap pins are definitely novel. But yes at $12/pair x 9 turnbuckles they are pricey. If the safety-in-welding rod approach doesn't work, maybe I can figure a DIY variation of the wrap pins. Such as just inserting a cotter pin, leaving it unbent, then wrapping a couple of turns of electrical tape around the turnbuckle to prevent the pin from slipping out. The tape should be good for a few outings over a couple of weeks. A quick cutting of the tape with a box knife should only take a few seconds each to remove. And non-destructive to the cotter pins!

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Many people tend to over-do the split of cotter pins by wrapping them completely around, but the recommended split is just 10 degrees. If you just make a slight split, they can be secure for your purpose and still be easily extracted and installed with a needle nose pliers with little effort.

I use split rings on my safety line turnbuckles in the manner you describe. The ring passes through the hole and the diameter is just wide enough to encircle the outside of the turnbuckle. These turnbuckles are the same size as my shrouds so I know that it can be done. The problem is that it was too painstaking to accomplish easily, so I don't bother for the shrouds.

 

[thinwater]

Some surveyors will actually fail split rings because of their tendency to get caught by running rigging and yanked out. Yup, I've had it happen on shrouds. That said, I use them some places where they feel safe.

 

[NYSail]

I users pins with Velcro.... Have used the same sweet for 5 years with no problems. Easy on easy off. Not cost prohibitive.

 

[alexco38]

You can make wrap pins youeself. Punch a hole through the velcro and put a dab of epoxy on the head will do. If you don't believe me, go to a shop and have a look at the retail product.
Home depot sells the double sides velcro for a few dollars a roll of 8 feet.

 

[Sailm8]

Cable ties but only for a short period like you describe.

 

[Ron20324]

The split rings work on the shroud-buckles. I have mine outboard of the turnbuckle, and are easy to see that they are still there.

You could wrap some seizing wire around the loop on the cotter pin, install the pin, the wrap the wire around the turnbuckle, as in normal use.

 

[thinwater]

The split rings work on the shroud-buckles. I have mine outboard of the turnbuckle, and are easy to see that they are still the.

You could wrap some seizing wire around the loop on the cotter pin, install the pin, the wrap the wire around the turnbuckle, as in normal use.

Safe enough on turnbuckles; I do the same.

Where they are scarey is anywhere on spreaders and clevis pins (genoa sheet can snatch one out while the rig is slack on the lee side, you tack, and there goes the rig).

 

[Steve Dion]

Rardi: Will something like this get you by? Whale Point Marine probably has them cheap.

http://www.downwindmarine.com/Johnson-Safety-Pin-Stainless-Steel-p-91000432.html

 

[rardiH36]

Rardi: Will something like this get you by? Whale Point Marine probably has them cheap.

http://www.downwindmarine.com/Johnson-Safety-Pin-Stainless-Steel-p-91000432.html

Steve:

Thanks. Yes that would do for the temporary task. Actually I will be driving from Marin to the East Bay on Saturday. Right past Whale Point off 580. I'll call them to find out if in stock.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

Many people tend to over-do the split of cotter pins by wrapping them completely around, but the recommended split is just 10 degrees. If you just make a slight split, they can be secure for your purpose and still be easily extracted and installed with a needle nose pliers with little effort.

Exactly so. And some of designers ,Tartan's Charlie Britton for one, would go nuts if they saw pins spread more than 10 degrees. Or so I've been told by someone who sailed with him.

 

[Chris Patterson]

Agreed on the pin angle. And myself, I never use a cotter pin twice. If I bend it once, to the trash it goes..

 

[Stu Jackson]

I don't bother with pins or rings. I just keep adjusting the shrouds...

Roger Long had a clever solution a while back: welding rod.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Yeah ...

I don't bother with pins or rings. I just keep adjusting the shrouds...

I've thought of that myself, but don't trust that I would notice a problem until catastrophe!

But it does beg the question ... if you are actively adjusting the shrouds over a relatively small time period, why bother inserting the cotter pins until you are satisfied?