A boatyard nearby has an '86 Starwind 190 with trailer and Johnson outboard for $4,000. Given that this is a dealer, I figure that price is high and negotiable. But before I even stop by, I want some clues on whether this is the boat for me. I live in Maine and have access to both lake and coastal sailing. I race weekly on Lasers but have long wanted a trailer-sailor that won't keep tossing me in the drink like my laser or my old Zuma daysailor. Maine is a great place to sail, but challenging. It is no surprise that traditional boats like Cape Dorys are popular. Winds can go from whispers to gales, the coast has nice big rocks and the tides and currents are challenging. Sailing the coast with my faithful old Zuma can get a little hairy. I need more boat! But while I'd love a traditional boat, I need one I can tow, set up alone and sail single-handed. And the biggest car I have is a VW van (capable of 5,000 lbs. of trailer) that I don't want to kill by dragging a barge. So while I want a boat small enough to tow easily and good for single-handed sailing, I also want a good sailor that doesn't feel like a balsa-wood model in the waves. My top choices, a Marshall 17 or a Cape Dory Typhoon, are scarce and expensive. Can the Starwind 190 work for me?
Is the Starwind 190 a proper boat?
- Thread starter greg g.
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Star Wind Faults..
These are not very popular boats for a reason..you'd be better served by a more popular Make and Model than the Star Winds..try finding parts etc for these online and you'll get the point.Look about for something more popular and a bit larger that will better suit your needs and be easier to fix and/or find parts for..both the Catalina 22' and MacGregor 22' come to mind..I did a quick look online and found several of each for under $3K...and parts are plenty and cheap because they made (still have Catalina in productrion) so many of them.Plus,both are decent sailers.
These are not very popular boats for a reason..you'd be better served by a more popular Make and Model than the Star Winds..try finding parts etc for these online and you'll get the point.Look about for something more popular and a bit larger that will better suit your needs and be easier to fix and/or find parts for..both the Catalina 22' and MacGregor 22' come to mind..I did a quick look online and found several of each for under $3K...and parts are plenty and cheap because they made (still have Catalina in productrion) so many of them.Plus,both are decent sailers.
Here are some thoughts
I have a Catalina 22, and I made a gin pole for the mast and use a block and tackle, but I've never raised it by myself, but others do it. I think that you'd spend a lot of time with rigging and breaking back down. My boat weighs about 2700 lbs, empty, add the trailer, motor, gear, and your probably pulling closer to 4000 lbs. I read a series of stories about a fellow who trailered his 19' West Wight Potter to Mexico and sailed along the Baja coast. I've checked out a few of them, but never sailed one. They look to be pretty seaworthy, and the cockpit and cabin seem to both be amply sized.
I have a Catalina 22, and I made a gin pole for the mast and use a block and tackle, but I've never raised it by myself, but others do it. I think that you'd spend a lot of time with rigging and breaking back down. My boat weighs about 2700 lbs, empty, add the trailer, motor, gear, and your probably pulling closer to 4000 lbs. I read a series of stories about a fellow who trailered his 19' West Wight Potter to Mexico and sailed along the Baja coast. I've checked out a few of them, but never sailed one. They look to be pretty seaworthy, and the cockpit and cabin seem to both be amply sized.
Trailer sailors
I dont know from the Starwind 190 but a google search turned up several people posting messages looking for parts for these boats (what LancerDude said). I have sailed a Rhodes Mariner 19' which makes a nice trailer sailer. It has a centerboard and has the stability of a larger boat. Not sure about the weight but I towed one (a mile on the flat) with my Toyota Celica. Raising the mast requires some doing but that will be true of any trailer sailboat. I picked up a Lightning this summer for a steal ($1K with trailer) which was set up for racing. Raising the mast is still some work and this boat will tip over but it is fast and worth considering. You can sleep 2 fairly comfortably on the Rhodes 19'. I've seen them sell for less than $4K on ebay.
I dont know from the Starwind 190 but a google search turned up several people posting messages looking for parts for these boats (what LancerDude said). I have sailed a Rhodes Mariner 19' which makes a nice trailer sailer. It has a centerboard and has the stability of a larger boat. Not sure about the weight but I towed one (a mile on the flat) with my Toyota Celica. Raising the mast requires some doing but that will be true of any trailer sailboat. I picked up a Lightning this summer for a steal ($1K with trailer) which was set up for racing. Raising the mast is still some work and this boat will tip over but it is fast and worth considering. You can sleep 2 fairly comfortably on the Rhodes 19'. I've seen them sell for less than $4K on ebay.
Don't be put off by the previous comments ...
The Starwind 19 was designed by Jim Taylor and if you question his credentials, take a look at this link. As a quick note, he is known for designing more "Boat of the Year" winners than any other designer, for whatever that is worth. These include the entries from Sabre (as a sailor from Maine, this should get your attention
).http://www.sailboatshop.com/pages/taylor_bio.htm In the early eighties, these boats were made by Wellcraft. If the one you are looking at was made in 1986, it was probably made by Rebel Industries. Check out this link for more information.http://www.starwinds.com We bought a 1984 Starwind 27 two years ago and we are very happy with the boat. Getting parts is a non-issue. All our components are easily replaceable with current name brands that you can buy at any well-stocked marine supplier. For instance, all the hardware on our boat is Schaefer. This is an indication of the quality components that went into the boat. I can't think of anything that I would have to go back to Wellcraft for. In my opinion, these boats were very well designed for performance and very well made with quality components. If you look at my boat, you could be thinking that you are looking at a late model Precision, which says something about the timeless design (and the fact that Precisions are designed by Jim Taylor)! Personally, I think you are making a mistake by looking at trailer sailers, being from Maine. Why do you want to limit yourself to relatively sheltered waters and lakes when you have such tremendous cruising grounds in your back yard? If it was me, I'd look for a larger, fixed keel boat, that would make me feel far more secure in the cold, open waters that you have up there in Maine. It may be a slightly higher economic stretch, but that's what you have to work hard for! The price on this model seems like it might be a little high, but if it is well cared for, the trailer is in good shape and the outboard is new or also very well maintained, it could be a bargain. If it has a good roller furler, which it very well might, and the sails are in good condition, and a trailer sailer is what you are looking for, I wouldn't hesitate to check it out. It may be a pretty good bargain. It's definitely worth considering!
The Starwind 19 was designed by Jim Taylor and if you question his credentials, take a look at this link. As a quick note, he is known for designing more "Boat of the Year" winners than any other designer, for whatever that is worth. These include the entries from Sabre (as a sailor from Maine, this should get your attention
).http://www.sailboatshop.com/pages/taylor_bio.htm In the early eighties, these boats were made by Wellcraft. If the one you are looking at was made in 1986, it was probably made by Rebel Industries. Check out this link for more information.http://www.starwinds.com We bought a 1984 Starwind 27 two years ago and we are very happy with the boat. Getting parts is a non-issue. All our components are easily replaceable with current name brands that you can buy at any well-stocked marine supplier. For instance, all the hardware on our boat is Schaefer. This is an indication of the quality components that went into the boat. I can't think of anything that I would have to go back to Wellcraft for. In my opinion, these boats were very well designed for performance and very well made with quality components. If you look at my boat, you could be thinking that you are looking at a late model Precision, which says something about the timeless design (and the fact that Precisions are designed by Jim Taylor)! Personally, I think you are making a mistake by looking at trailer sailers, being from Maine. Why do you want to limit yourself to relatively sheltered waters and lakes when you have such tremendous cruising grounds in your back yard? If it was me, I'd look for a larger, fixed keel boat, that would make me feel far more secure in the cold, open waters that you have up there in Maine. It may be a slightly higher economic stretch, but that's what you have to work hard for! The price on this model seems like it might be a little high, but if it is well cared for, the trailer is in good shape and the outboard is new or also very well maintained, it could be a bargain. If it has a good roller furler, which it very well might, and the sails are in good condition, and a trailer sailer is what you are looking for, I wouldn't hesitate to check it out. It may be a pretty good bargain. It's definitely worth considering!It is a well built boat with an excellent design.
The short keel center board design was years ahead of its time and to me provides the safety of a ballasted keel with a convenient short draft for launching and retreiving. We trailer a 1984 223 and we have put it through its paces in quite rough weather and it has earned its stripes. The price is on the high side but it would depend on the condition of the boat and equipment. I would look for a full set of cushions in good condition both for cabin and cockpit. A sturdy motor mount that operates well. An outboard that runs good and looks like it has been well maintained and a trailer free of rust with a tongue extension and two good tires and working lights. Of course check the sails and their conditions.
The short keel center board design was years ahead of its time and to me provides the safety of a ballasted keel with a convenient short draft for launching and retreiving. We trailer a 1984 223 and we have put it through its paces in quite rough weather and it has earned its stripes. The price is on the high side but it would depend on the condition of the boat and equipment. I would look for a full set of cushions in good condition both for cabin and cockpit. A sturdy motor mount that operates well. An outboard that runs good and looks like it has been well maintained and a trailer free of rust with a tongue extension and two good tires and working lights. Of course check the sails and their conditions.
Go for it
If it's the one in Stockton Springs I say go for it. Better to be sorry for what you did than didn't do. It "looks" worth about $3500, but I'm no genius. I live in Massachusetts after all.
If it's the one in Stockton Springs I say go for it. Better to be sorry for what you did than didn't do. It "looks" worth about $3500, but I'm no genius. I live in Massachusetts after all.
Starwind 190 on EBay
I don't know anything about the Starwind 190 except that it is a nice looking boat. There is one for sale now on EBay. It may give you some comparison to the one that you have looked at. Good Luck in your decision.
I don't know anything about the Starwind 190 except that it is a nice looking boat. There is one for sale now on EBay. It may give you some comparison to the one that you have looked at. Good Luck in your decision.
Trailer-sailer
I have a 21' Cal, probably rare in your neighborhood given it's west coast origins, with a swing keel and the boat weighs in at 1100 lbs. Previous owner trailered it with a mini-van and so you might add this to your list. There is little not to like about the boat. I want to re-emphasize Scott's point on "parts" availability as my boat has been out of production longer than it was in production! What parts are the other posters talking about that you need a supply of from the factory or the junk yard? There are none. If you need gudgeons and pintles you buy them and install them-they don't have to be exact replicas and may even be better. There isn't anything on my boat that I cannot replace, either via off-the-shelf or fabrication. You said you wanted a sailboat-so that pretty much rules out the MacGregor. The price does seem high-I paid $2200 for my boat five years ago-and I'd expect you could get this one down to at least the $3000 range. I would, of course, look over hull and deck for delamination and blistering issues. These can be either expensive or time consuming to fix (or both). And I, unlike Scott, would encourage you to get the trailer-sailer versus the keel boat. Scott's point is valid but it comes at a cost. Your mooring or slip can be your driveway with a substantial cost savings. There is nothing to prevent you from going to visit your sister in NY and go sailing with her on your boat. (assuming you have a sister in NY!) You can get up on Saturday morning and find that the sea are running 10-15' on the big pond and go sailing on the little pond instead. You can get into skinny water with your trailer-sailer. You can haul your boat whenever you want, without resort to a hoist. In many cases, you can even beach your boat. And your winter storage/repair yard is, again, your driveway. All of these add up to flexibility and cost savings, if sacrificing some seaworthiness in weather and probably some pointing ability. Examine the trailer carefully as well. Serious corrosion is either a deal breaker or a substantial price reduction. Any kind of trailer, in good condition, is going to cost you a grand. Bad rubber (weather checked) knock off two hundred for replacement. Slop in the wheel bearings, knock off another hundred or so. Trailer lights don't work, knock off another hundred. After you've gone over the trailer you can go over the boat and pick it apart. Don't be afraid to use the lack of lifejackets as a negotiating point. Don't get in the mind-set that you are willing to buy what the boat needs-even if you already own lifejackets! You need to come up with a list of deficiencies, and an apprximation of their cost to remedy, in order to get this boat down to the $2000 you really want to give. You may already know all that, if so forgive me. Since I know nothing about this individual boat, and others have commented on the line favorably, I'd say you probably have a winner if you can get the price down. And don't even think about a MacGregor unless it comes with a bow thruster!
I have a 21' Cal, probably rare in your neighborhood given it's west coast origins, with a swing keel and the boat weighs in at 1100 lbs. Previous owner trailered it with a mini-van and so you might add this to your list. There is little not to like about the boat. I want to re-emphasize Scott's point on "parts" availability as my boat has been out of production longer than it was in production! What parts are the other posters talking about that you need a supply of from the factory or the junk yard? There are none. If you need gudgeons and pintles you buy them and install them-they don't have to be exact replicas and may even be better. There isn't anything on my boat that I cannot replace, either via off-the-shelf or fabrication. You said you wanted a sailboat-so that pretty much rules out the MacGregor. The price does seem high-I paid $2200 for my boat five years ago-and I'd expect you could get this one down to at least the $3000 range. I would, of course, look over hull and deck for delamination and blistering issues. These can be either expensive or time consuming to fix (or both). And I, unlike Scott, would encourage you to get the trailer-sailer versus the keel boat. Scott's point is valid but it comes at a cost. Your mooring or slip can be your driveway with a substantial cost savings. There is nothing to prevent you from going to visit your sister in NY and go sailing with her on your boat. (assuming you have a sister in NY!) You can get up on Saturday morning and find that the sea are running 10-15' on the big pond and go sailing on the little pond instead. You can get into skinny water with your trailer-sailer. You can haul your boat whenever you want, without resort to a hoist. In many cases, you can even beach your boat. And your winter storage/repair yard is, again, your driveway. All of these add up to flexibility and cost savings, if sacrificing some seaworthiness in weather and probably some pointing ability. Examine the trailer carefully as well. Serious corrosion is either a deal breaker or a substantial price reduction. Any kind of trailer, in good condition, is going to cost you a grand. Bad rubber (weather checked) knock off two hundred for replacement. Slop in the wheel bearings, knock off another hundred or so. Trailer lights don't work, knock off another hundred. After you've gone over the trailer you can go over the boat and pick it apart. Don't be afraid to use the lack of lifejackets as a negotiating point. Don't get in the mind-set that you are willing to buy what the boat needs-even if you already own lifejackets! You need to come up with a list of deficiencies, and an apprximation of their cost to remedy, in order to get this boat down to the $2000 you really want to give. You may already know all that, if so forgive me. Since I know nothing about this individual boat, and others have commented on the line favorably, I'd say you probably have a winner if you can get the price down. And don't even think about a MacGregor unless it comes with a bow thruster!
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