Is license required for..

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Jim Seamans

Jim Seamans

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Mar 21, 2004
2,175
Hunter 356 Cobb Island, MD
Have a fellow sail boater who volunteers his sailboat for charity rides. This is where someone bids for items that are donated to charity. Does he need a six-pack license or equivalent to provide these rides? What about insurance requirements? Jim S/V Java
 
M

mike c

absolutely

absolutely........anytime $ (even charities and donations)is exchanged for a boat ride the USCG requires the skipper to be licensed.
 
Warren Milberg

Warren Milberg

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Dec 1, 1999
2,391
Hunter 28.5 Chesapeake Bay
Being the scofflaw...

...that I am, I have taken "passengers out for a sail" (A Day On The Bay!)on boat my who have made a contribution to a charity -- and I've done so without the "benefit" of a 6-Pack or any other type of boating license. My thought process here, and confirmed telephonically by the USCG (see link), is that I am (1) not chartering my boat, and (2) not taking passengers out for a fee charged by me. I am the captain of a recreational boat being used for recreational purposes. If said passengers have made a contribution to a charity, that is fine with me. I even provide them with lunch and drinks.... Here are a few numbers to call if interested: USCG: 1-800-368-5647 MD Reg Exam Ctr: 410-962-5132 A final note: as with many things in life, answers received depend, to a great extent, on how you phrase your request for information.
 
T

T J Furstenau

I'm with Warren

Yes, I'm a scofflaw as well. I have done several outings with friends after auctioning off trips on the boat at church and school fund raisers. I guess my take was that I was out with friends, who happened to have made a contribution to the church or school for the opportunity to spend a day with me. Can you blame them? So being the fun loving guy that I am, I took my friends for a ride on my boat. Although I didn't check into it like Warren did, (I'm more an "Ask for forgiveness rather than ask for permission" kind of guy), my thought process was just as he described. I'm not chartering, I'm not getting paid, I'm a simple sailor out for the day with friends. T J
 
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Rob2435

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Jun 4, 2004
287
Beneteau Oceanis 352 NYC
I think I remember a case.....

I remember hearing a story of a couple going out on someones boat, one of which got hurt and tried to sue the skipper. The basis for their case was that they bought the beer and food, their lawyer equated this to a "fee" for being on the boat. Now paying a fee to be on the boat, directly or indirectly, I wouldn't chance it. If someone gets hurt, say goodbye to the boat!
 
Ross

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Rob, if you choose to bring the beer that is

just polite. If I say Rob you bring the beer and make sure that you get Sam Adams. that is a fee.
 
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Moody Buccaneer

Fine Line

If the charity goes out and hires a boat to provide the rides they auction off, the boat and skipper would probably require license. If the skipper claims a deduction (rather than charge a fee) for the rides, he probably needs a license. If the skipper receives nothing of value and happens to take new friends that donated to his favourite charity out for a sail, he can probably get by without a license. It may be keyed to how the auction is worded. Certainly everyone that bakes a cake or cookies for a charity bake sale does not have to be a licensed cook. That logic says the skipper shouldn't need a license. On the other hand, if someone gets food poisoning from a bake sale item or gets hurt on the boat ... who is liable? It could get sticky! :)
 
J

Joe on Alure

I can't make this stuff up!

We used to offer a gourmet cruise on our sailboat to the highest bidder at our church's annual service auction and, again, on our school board's charitable foundation. We helped both organizations earn anywhere from $100 to $500. Our insurance carrier did not mind the arrangement at all: if we were reckless, they would do what they would have to do. We always made sure the boat was safe and we operators were well behaved. The food was fantatic, the fellowship terrific and good will amazing. Recently, our 'invitation' was the local newspaper's front page lead, to inform populace of upcoming fundraiser and entice folks to come and participate. The Coast Guard got wind of our enterprize: they told us that we would need a licensed captain and boat would have to be inspected first! Talk about a wet blanket! The CG rep was as dismissive as he was unwavering. Dire things would happen, even if we saw no money, even if the guests donated their money. Our friends/guests/contributors got their money back, cashed the refund, gave the money again as cash and will have a great boat ride, on us, for free.
 
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Retcoastie

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Jun 4, 2006
133
Macgregor 26X Gray Hawk, KY
Why take a chance???

I would steer clear of anything close to giving a free ride to someone you did not have a history with, who gave a donation. (If it looks like a duck, etc.) Here is a potential problem. Suppose the donors went out for a good time a something happened. They probably would not raise a stink so things are fine. Suppose those donors were a young couple and the breadwinner of the family was hurt, disabled, or killed. Now there is a spouse and possibly small children who have been deprived of their means of support. The spouse, or a court appointed legal guardian of the minor children, is going to look out for their welfare. Who they going to come after? If they come big, will your insurance company look for a way out? I have to many toys to risk EVERYTHING, even for a good charity. We may see it as a nice thing to do, but a jury may look at things differently. My 2 cents.
 
Ross

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
This thread is serving to confirm

only that we are a litiguous people.
 
Warren Milberg

Warren Milberg

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Dec 1, 1999
2,391
Hunter 28.5 Chesapeake Bay
It's easy to make

something simple into something hard, if you want to. If you are a recreational boater, using your boat for recreational purposes, you don't need a license. Period. Sure, if you pose this issue a different way, you may solicit, and get, a different answer. Not all USCG people are well-informed on this, and related issues. Its like having your taxes done by 10 different professionals. YOu'll get 10 different bottom lines. When necessary, don't be timid about questioning an answer from a so-called authority figure, if you believe his answer is wrong. But first, arm yourself with the right info, chapter, and verse. And common sense. Most bureaucrats will back off when faced with someone who knows more than he does. As to liability issues, anyone can sue anyone at anytime for any reason. These are times we live in. Get used to it. A guy you take out for a charity sail is no more likely to sue you if he gets hurt in the course of that sail than is a member of your race crew. Whether you have a license or not is not the issue. Whether you have used prudence, discretion, and operated your boat safely are the issues to focus on. Just picture this headline in your local paper: "USCG Cites Local Sailor for Taking Couple On A Sail in Support of the American Cancer Association." Guess who the winner of that peeing contest is gonna be?
 
Franklin

Franklin

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Jul 20, 2005
2,422
Whitby 55 Kemah, Tx
Cool deal

Who wants to bid on a charity cruise captained by me into the Bay for a day. We will have a peeing contest off the bow and all proceeds will go to helping Dreamboat become ready for a Around the World sail to spread the gospel of Atheistism :) Do I hear $500? $1,000? $1,000,000....SOLD :)
 
B

Bob

no insurance

I was recently asked to donate this service and since I would not know the winners, I asked my boat (Boats US) and homowners insurance companies. Both took the situation to their underwriters and both said no coverage for these guests. The reasoning was, in the mind of the guest they are a paying customer.
 
Warren Milberg

Warren Milberg

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Dec 1, 1999
2,391
Hunter 28.5 Chesapeake Bay
For Bob

What precisely did you ask your insurance company? The fact that the people you planned to take out gave money TO A THIRD PARTY (the charity) and NOT TO YOU are the operative ideas here. You would not have received any monetary benetit from your actions unless you were under contract to the charity or had an explicit business relationship with them. As such, there is no way to consider you are taking passengers out for a fee. A third party, not an owner or operator of your boat may have benefitted. You did not. Run that by them again and repost, please.
 
B

Benny

Ask your insurance company.

Is very simple just pose the question to your insurance company to see if they will underwrite the risk and at what premium. You may be better off donating cold cash and getting a tax write off.
 
B

Benny

Bob, I hear you.

Is not what the insurance company, you or me may think about this arrangement it is about the possibility that the person making a monetary disbursement may consider himself a paying customer. It would not be hard for such a person in case of an accident to get a jury to side with them.
 
B

Bob

Told them third party

I made it very clear to the underwriter that a third party was getting the money and not me. Sad as it may be, I think Benny is right that someone could convince a jury that I was at fault. The issue of was I paid or did I receive any benefit (i.e. tax deduction credit, etc.) becomes a minor fact when I have to defend myself. My biggest concern at the outset was I did not know who the beneficiary was and so elected to contribute in a different fashion.
 
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