Is it Trisail or Trysail?

[markwbird]

Let us not forget the debate over whether it is a "cutless" bearing or a "cutlass" bearing.

There is no debate there. It is cutlass.

 

[LloydB]

Just took a look here might not be the same in the US especially in the NE or South since it's in English.
https://www.uksailmakers.com/storm-trysail

 

[rgranger]

... at least one Commodore remark that we should use the word “boating“ generally to describe our on-the-water activities, so to be more inclusive of the powerboaters who are members, etc.

Uh...... no.

 

[capta]

In the days of square sails I believe it was from triangular, rather that a square sail. An order to trim or raise the topgallant trisail would differentiate it from the topgallant itself. Arg

 

[jssailem]

When you have pirate blood it surfaces when least expected....

 

[Kings Gambit]

In the days of square sails I believe it was from triangular, rather that a square sail. An order to trim or raise the topgallant trisail would differentiate it from the topgallant itself. Arg

The definitions suggest it replaced a sail normally gaff headed; that it was oriented fore & aft on that boom. Can a t’gallant sail be oriented fore-aft?

 

[jssailem]

Possibly but why would you want to? It is a rectangular sail, is it not?

In addition the conversation is about a sail to be used under a storm condition. The goal is to make it serve as a steering sail to allow the helm to steer into the waves rather than to meet the waves abeam. As Jon has pointed out a broadsided wave can tear a boat apart.

TopGallant..

 

[jssailem]

It refers to a stretch of spar, above the Main Mast spar.

 

[Kings Gambit]

The definitions suggest it replaced a sail normally gaff headed; that it was oriented fore & aft on that boom. Can a t’gallant sail be oriented fore-aft?

Just trying to make sense out of Capta’s remark above. I pretty much know what a t’gallant is. It’s the square sail above the tops’il. Actually, there can be two: lower and upper. Lower above the tops’il; upper t’gallant above the lower.

 

[thinwater]

My usual method is to check the style guide I get from sailing magazine editors:

Trysail
Cutless

If it is not in the style guide, the other definitive reference for nautical terms is Oxford Enlish Dictionary. Very good, in part because OED is big on origins and usage, and at the end of the day, the most common published usage ends up becoming correct written English. That is the evolution of language.

 

[rgranger]

the most common published usage ends up becoming correct written English. That is the evolution of language.

So what you are saying is to read the destruction manual

 

[capta]

The definitions suggest it replaced a sail normally gaff headed; that it was oriented fore & aft on that boom. Can a t’gallant sail be oriented fore-aft?

I'm talking years, if not centuries before the gaff rig became a popullar rig for coastal cargo work. I just used the topgallant as an example. almost every square sail had it's accompanying trisail. so there were were numerous trisails/staysails available for use on a square riggged ship once she'd settled down for a long run.

 

[Kings Gambit]

I'm talking years, if not centuries before the gaff rig became a popullar rig for coastal cargo work. I just used the topgallant as an example. almost every square sail had it's accompanying trisail. so there were were numerous trisails/staysails available for use on a square riggged ship once she'd settled down for a long run.

I guess I’m talking function, here. You’re intimating that a trisail, historically, is not a fore-aft sail; but one that is bent between two spars, like a square sail, but where the pointy end is bent on the upper spar? That’s the way I’m reading this.

 

[capta]

I guess I’m talking function, here. You’re intimating that a trisail, historically, is not a fore-aft sail; but one that is bent between two spars, like a square sail, but where the pointy end is bent on the upper spar? That’s the way I’m reading this.

I can't figure how to make pointing arrows in Gimp picture editing so I'll let the pic show you. There are eight trisails on the Ameriga Vespucci in the pic below. Four are jibs, and two are staysails or trisails, your choice. Some are jibs or headsails, others are staysails but all are trisails. I'm sure the specific names change with the language and local dialect, but they'll all be as simple. We're not talking about crew members with a whole lotta smarts back then.

 

[Kings Gambit]

I can't figure how to make pointing arrows in Gimp picture editing so I'll let the pic show you. There are eight trisails on the Ameriga Vespucci in the pic below. Four are jibs, and two are staysails or trisails, your choice. Some are jibs or headsails, others are staysails but all are trisails. I'm sure the specific names change with the language and local dialect, but they'll all be as simple. We're not talking about crew members with a whole lotta smarts back then.

I don’t see the pics, but it is clear that we are not talking about the same sail. If you are referring to stays’ils and/or jibs as trisails, then fine. That is not what we were discussing. We’re discussing a small fore-and-aft sail that is hoisted at the mast, but not the foremast or mainmast, of square riggers, and attached to a boom, or else straddles it on modern pleasure yachts with a sheet to either side, when all other canvas is down, the function of which is to “vane” the vessel head to wind and let her lay there during storm conditions, as in hove-to. Not to be out there sailing. That is a trysail. Please start at the beginning of the thread!

 

[jon hansen]

Jon. You can’t believe a word that’s printed on the digital images of that book. It is from 1920 man. It’s a hundred years old. That’s. That’s like a zillion years in internet computer years.

i just love the name ' funk and wagnalls' it's my go to reference every time. he he

 

[Kings Gambit]

Trysail is aft over the boom.

 

[Mark Maulden]

Maybe, but one is likely correct based on historical nautical usage, which I suspect is trysail, and the other proliferated misuse based on not knowing what one is, or its history.

It’s like swimming strokes. The are three basic stokes. Breaststroke, Backstroke, and Crawl. A competition where one may choose which stroke to use is a Freestyle Competition. Nearly everyone chooses the Crawl, so it is seen most in freestyle competition. After a few decades of this, the Crawl is mutated into the Freestyle Stroke, and the Crawl virtually disappears fro usage, etc.

Only three? What happened to Butterfly?

 

[Tedd]

Crawl virtually disappears fro usage, etc.

Or "drifting." A drift and a power slide used to mean two different things. Now, power slide competitions are called drifting competitions and there isn't even a word anymore for what used to be called drifting.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Only three? What happened to Butterfly?

Ok, you’re correct. It was bothering me I couldn’t recall when I thought there might be another.