Is it the boat or me?

mauruuru · Sep 4, 2012

Take it in stride

GreggL said:
I've posted this question a number of times and have gotten many differing responses most of which I've tried to no avail. Here's what's happening;

I cruise the long island sound in my hunter e33. Lots of powerboats, some very large, many narrow waterways, interesting tidal phenomenon, etc.. This all being said, the water can get pretty rough and confusing. Now, I'm no newbie to boating but this is certainly new to me. It seems no matter how a wake, swell, rip, and so forth hits my boat I'm tossed all over the place. Many have given advice on zig zagging, hitting it dead on, and others but in the narrow waterways sometimes that's not possible. To me it almost seems like I'm going to capsize anytime a powerboat overtakes me and I get completely swamped. This is true for motoring, sailing and a combination of both.

Is this the boat or me? What can I do?

I sail out of Red Bank NJ and the power boats racing up the river to and from the bridge (in both directions at the same time) create chaotic confused short chop seas that make my sailboat yaw and roll uncontrollably as they pass by in extremely close quarters. When I see or hear them coming, I brace for them and just steer through them and take the yawing and rolling as best I can. Decades of sailing from Lake Erie to the Atlantic have taught me one thing, you'll never teach a power boater any manners so just take it in stride.
It is highly improbable that your boat could broach, it is well designed and ocean coastal sailing capable so let her take care of that part!

Squidd · Sep 4, 2012

anytime a powerboat overtakes me and I get completely swamped.

It seems no matter how a wake, swell, rip, and so forth hits my boat I'm tossed all over the place

Do you actually take water on...??? Or just feel uncomfortable in the boat....?

Hard to believe a PB wake swamps a 33' boat...

Warren Milberg · Sep 4, 2012

I don't know the stability characteristics of your boat, but if you are being dangerously tossed about in a narrow channel that prevents you from safely taking defensive actions, my guess is the boats causing your tossing are exceeding the speedlimits (usually 6 kts) by a lot. So, I'd try blowing your air horn 5 times BEFORE the wake-maker gets to you (it probably will not do much good, but worth a try), or calling the local marine police and filing a report/complaint with them, giving the name of the offending boat, time, date ,place, etc. I've done this on the Chesapeake and it had good results, but it only impacted one powerboat that continually operated in a dangerous manner.

MLampner · Sep 4, 2012

When in areas with large number of badly behaved power boaters I find I have had the same fear but with owning the boat nearly three years I have come to realize it isn't going to happen even though the ride in circumstances can be extremely uncomfortable to say the least.

While I have not done it and should, rigging a preventer on the main when dealing with a lot of this would be smart. More than one time I have ended up with the boom swinging back and forth as we roll over the wake. I think you are far more likely to be injured or injure a passenger from that than the likelihood of the boat swamping.

There is no question at least on my antique 30 that taking a wake on the bow is preferable but as you point out not always possible. Even then in light wind particularly near a run, the mast can start swinging as I mentioned.

More than one time where it was clear the power boater was showing no regard for others I have seriously thought of getting on the radio and placing a call to the nearest police authority. That is not to say all power boaters are bad or all sailors are good. I have seen more than one sailor doing things they shouldn't be and I suspect we are all occasionally guilty of violating the rules of the "road" even if simply by inattention. The issue is a sailboats particularly under sail have fewer quick options if they are being menaced either accidentally or deliberately by a boat under power.

kenn · Sep 4, 2012

GreggL, are you talking about when you are motoring, or actually sailing? I have a hard time imagining a 33' boat being seriously pitched by a wake when on a brisk reach, but then again I haven't sailed in your waters.

I find the worst wake comes from big powerboats who are going relatively fast, but not planing. They're pushing out a huge bow wave... this must be the most inefficient speed possible. Only an oil crisis will change behaviour there, I fear.

seadaddler · Sep 4, 2012

No problem

My 07 H-36 not much bigger than you and know what you mean for sure,before moving to Florida we were in Greenport and while leaving the dock and out in main channel these very big sport fishing boats at full speed would really give us these big waves and cause us some nasty rolling for sure but it will not roll the boat over to the rails and most times I try to point the bow into the waves if we can,same thing down in the ICW in Fl with the go fast boats but not a problem to worry for sure,I was out on the ocean for 9 days from NY to Fl and nasty confusing waves hitting us like crazy and at first I was very worried but saw how well the boat handled the ruff ocean seas,enjoy your new boat and Hunter are very well built boats for sure,I miss LI sound and if ever get a chance go to Greenport,Sag Harbor,BI,Mystic sea port and you will love it as one of your greatest vacations for sure.
Nick

Fly_H23 · Sep 4, 2012

I speed up and turn directly towards oncoming powerboats before they get too close. They usually head further away and often slow down.

This "head butt" maneuver (as military pilots call it) usually works especially when the power boat is smaller.

shemandr · Sep 4, 2012

It's not you. Powerboat slop is a PITA to sail or motor through. Sometimes you feel like you're in the washing machine. I do my best to avoid areas like that including our own Greenport Harbor where on a weekend there are a succession of powerboats going with and against you. There are weekdays nights and the off season

tommays · Sep 4, 2012

To give you a size perspective were are talking about heavy 50' + size range boats that have no issue going up on plane right next to you and putting out a 5' deep hole that stuffs the bow of my Cal 29 no matter how i turn into it .

IF i don't take action i will be in for a very rolled like experience bad enough to put a rail in the water

I believe the battle wagons name on Sunday was FISH HOOK

Its certainly much worse than anything i would encounter while sailing

Ken Honeycutt · Sep 4, 2012

Same thing happens here in the Chicago harbor. Big motor yachts, cruise ships from Navy Pier, water taxis, jet skis and numerous smaller power boats all creating wakes and confused seas. My H36 rocks and rolls and makes for an uncomfortable ride for the 10 minutes it takes to get from the outer harbor to the inner harbor. Its gotten to where the admiral hates anything with a motor attached. Worst time is after the annual air water show - every idiot boater who has been pent up inside a marina due to fuel prices uses that day to run WOT everywhere they go.

Stu Jackson · Sep 4, 2012

A passing boat will give you a quartering wave, never a good thing. Simplest thing to do? Simply parallel the wake. You'll only get tossed in one direction, directly on the bean, much better than a quartering wake. If they're coming at you from the opposite direction, DO NOTHING, KEEP GOING, do NOT turn into them, you only make it worse that way. Why? 'Cuz those are the same wave directions you experience when sailing close hauled or close reach. Pretty simple. So are the guys who are making the wake.

higgs · Sep 4, 2012

It is probably not you. The newer designs that carry beam farther aft are not going to ride confused, quartering seas as well as heavier, less beamy boats. That wider stern has its own set of advantages, but like everything else on a boat, every advantage has a disadvantage. Quartering seas are the most uncomfortable direction for pretty much any boat. The wider beam just makes it worse.

Stu Jackson · Sep 4, 2012

GreggL said:
I agree that quartering the wave is bad but on the beam would be worse I imagine. Thought that was a definite no-no.

Nope. Sorry, I typed beaN not beaM.

For the two or three times you get the waves from each wake, you only get "twist" in one direction (side to side) not a complete corkscrew. Try it a few times, you'll see. Lots less maneuvering on your part, too. I do it for mobos and ferries alike.

Anonymous 121765 · Sep 5, 2012

Greg,

All the guys have given great advice based on their experiences.

The most problems for me are the larger power boats in narrow channels. The obvious problems they cause is their belief that bigger has the right-a-way. This is true, but the pattern I see:
1. The term more dollars then sense holds true.
2. Watch and see that most do not use the correct trim for their speed, creating large wakes.
3. Note as they pass in close quarters almost ALWAYS, they never look back to see how the smaller craft handles their wake.

Sadly, most people with big money expect special entitlements. They feel more power & expect the little guy to lay down. If you notice many top earners have a long list of victims on their climb to the top.

I have learned over time that it's not worth it trying to SAIL in channels with traffic and/or current. I see the purist sailors with sails up, paying the price of wakes. I've seen masts & keels break, sails rip, boom shuttering and rigging exploding. I've witnessed people being injured, and/or thrown overboard.

The law states that any boat in Navigable waterways whose wake causes damage to another boat IS liable. So, after going thru your wake induced emergency, make sure you have binoculars to read the boat’s name in case he’s moving off quickly. Hail your local Water Nazi, marine patrol etc. to document. Tell them you are taking damage inventory & will update them. Call ahead to the next bridge tender & report this also to him. Give him the boat’s name & he will write it down as it passes. This is info you will need to sue the bastard.

Now for the wake handling, all boats by design will handle differently.
What works for me, as FLY mentioned is to turn to him. I try the “gently nudge method.” I try to show my intent but you don’t want to be too blatant, as he may be an ******* and decide he wants to show you a lesson.

As he passes (hopefully you have room), I turn my bow into the wake @ 30-45°. For me this keeps me upright instead of THE ROLL. You may also move your berth to a better spot and/or contact local authorities for more speed signs, etc. If you are with BOATUS, contact them. They may influence the officials for more or better speed markers.

I have many friends with large powerboats that are excellent operators, but there are the *******s & they will always be there.

CR

Anonymous 121765 · Sep 5, 2012

A byline tangent:

Another thing I've used a few times under distress was if I had a beer bottle close by, I have a great arm and have thrown a few.

Some will not agree but, every boater should always carry a gun. In the captain's training course this is covered and for no other reason it is a signaling device. Now I'm not saying to shoot the idiot or his boat, but a gun on board is always a good bet.

In my 30 years of boating, I've had to pull my gun twice. Remember, this is the banana republic of Florida. And we have cowboys to deal with here.

Once I was boarded at nite @ anchor by two river rats, the other time it was a couple of Muslims in a sport fisherman 25 miles offshore. They made the mistake of running over my trolling lines and when I yelled (they were very close) came back brandishing a gun. I had my ex-Seal friend Tom on board. I do target practice off the back of my boat using 50 foot of line and gallon milk jugs.

We had just finished shooting when these guys showed up. What these poor bastards didn't know was that Tom had bought a 45, a 9mm, and a browning BAR rifle that day. Tom came out of the cabin with the rifle and yelled "here's mine." They took off in a hurry.

So, always be prepared.
CR