Is it necessary to remove the sail ?

Maine Sail · Oct 21, 2009

Franklin said:
You still don't get it.

The haylard is connected to the sail's head. The sail's tack is connected to the bar. Pull the haylard tight and it pulls the bar up as far as it can go via the sail. That's why it doesn't move around when the mast is up. Gravity has nothing to do with it. Take the sail out and you loose all that tension that holds things in place. Like I said before, it doesn't matter if the mast is up or not, if the haylard is tight, the sail is not going to move. If it did, then our sails would shafe all the time during storms at the dock.

Franklin,

I actually do get it.

Please look at the manual for a Selden furling spar which I have linked to in the above post.

I have a very good working knowledge of how these spars operate. The halyard tightens the LUFF only. The bottom of the foil rides in bearings that DO NOT move up or down. The top of the foil also rides in a bearing that does not move up or down either. This is called the top swivel.

The foil tension on Selden's, at least the ones I've worked on, is separate and set by a foil tension screw in the mast base. I have adjusted one before.

I will try to find a schematic and instruction manual for you so you can clearly see that the halyard does NOT tension the foil.

EDIT:

Didn't take long but I found one. This mast is very similar to the one I adjusted two years ago.

Selden Furling Mast Manual (LINK)

Franklin · Oct 21, 2009

I know there are bearings....duhhhhh! That has nothing to do with the fact that with the haylard tight, the sail will not shafe (bearings do have play but will not be a problem with halyard tight). If you think a mast riding on a truck is any more movement then what the mast does at the dock when a strom comes in you are crazy. If there was a possiblity of shafe, I wouldn't have a sail left now.

The fact is, the sail and mast both are much safer with the sail in it. The sail is protected inside it where it's not so protected outside. The inner workings of the mast will not move with the sail in it but will drastically move with it out.

Maine Sail · Oct 21, 2009

pkdailey4 said:
The mast in question is a Charleston Spar

If it is a Charleston, which is what I previously owned, I still stand by my original response. You can use the halyard swivel at the top to reduce the foil banging and slide pipe insulation up the foil. Mine shipped form the factory with the halyard swivel a the top of the spar w/foam at a couple points in between.

Maine Sail · Oct 21, 2009

Franklin said:
I know there are bearings....duhhhhh! That has nothing to do with the fact that with the haylard tight, the sail will not shafe (bearings do have play but will not be a problem with halyard tight). If you think a mast riding on a truck is any more movement then what the mast does at the dock when a strom comes in you are crazy. If there was a possiblity of shafe, I wouldn't have a sail left now.

What is shafe? Once again the halyard applies NO tension to the foil only to the luff of the sail. The only thing on a Selden that changes the foil tension is the foil tension screw. In a good storm you can get your mast pumping enough to cause sail damage and it has happened. Some spars have enough room in them so that when vertical the mast would have to pump a lot to case the sail to hit the sides of the spar.

When going down the road horizontally the sail might naturally want to rest on the spar internals due to it's added weight to the foil. On a Selden the foil is adjusted so as to barely touch the spar wall at the mid point.

Remember I never said it would chafe through only that this could potentially happen and was a concern of mine.

Selden Spar said:
Checking luff extrusion tension prior to stepping the mast

The luff extrusion is correctly tensioned before leaving the factory, but tension can be re-checked before stepping the mast in the following manner.

Lay the mast horizontally and check that the extrusion is just clear of the mast wall at its mid point.

If adjustment is necessary see points 1-5 below.

If adjustment has to be made after the mast has been stepped, then the luff extrusion should be so tensioned that it does not beat against the mast wall when you grasp it through the upper access hole and shake it.

Most of the extrusion will be resting on the aft face of the sail compartment when sailing.

DO NOT OVER-TENSION! A luff extrusion that is over-tensioned will require increased furling effort

With 2" of sail material over the foil laying horizontal it will be a little more likely to impinge than when standing vertically.

I have presented the data and linked to it so others can see it in plain sight and decide for them selves.

But for persistence I will honor you with a win.

Franklin · Oct 21, 2009

Dude....look at it this way. I spent several days in a row on several different trips in the Gulf beating against at least 5' and sometimes 8' and 12' waves with main rolled up. Did not damage my sail at all. Now do you believe a truck going down a smooth paved road is less violent then beating against the waves? I think not. Good night. I'm done with the lack of logic in this thread.

Jonrod222 · Oct 22, 2009

There is nothing smooth about any Interstate that I have been on, espeacially in a tractor trailer. There is a reason the seats ride on a cushoin of air.

CarlN · Oct 22, 2009

Regardless of what you decide about the mast, I'd be there on the day of loading with lots of extra anti-chafe stuff. The vibration from any piece of metal can cut through through gelcoat, awlgrip, plexiglass, varnish, anodizing, etc. Also go through the interior of your boat and look for any loose metal that can chafe. Bimini frames, spare anchors, winch handles all need to be wrapped.

In my experience, most boat haulers don't do that many sailboats. Powerboats are easier. For example, don't let them shrinkwrap your stays against the mast without chafe protection. Make sure the mast is supported at more than two places. Don't let them put sideways bending loads on the spreaders. Support the headsail furler - especially where the drum attaches to the foil. It's very easy to get a permanent kink in the foil.

Finally, be sure the hull supports are against a part of the hull with a bulkhead and that the weight is born by the keel. You can really damage the hull laminate by letting the boat hang from the side poppets. Make the driver back each poppet off until you can see daylight then snug it up.

Carl

Nereussailor · Oct 22, 2009

I like Main sails idea of removing the sail and stuffing pipe insulation in there to protect the foil. I'm sure that when the manufacturers ship them, they have something to protect it so it's not just flopping around. That actually sounds better than leaving the sail in.

Dave

timvg · Oct 22, 2009

Here's my two cents (and I don't even have in the mast furling). It should be fairly easy to find out what works best by doing the following:

Contact Beneteau, Hunter, and Catalina. Ask them how they ship their boats all over the country (which they do all of the time). I'm sure they must have figured this out by now.

sailingdog · Oct 22, 2009

I'd point out that removing the sail costs you nothing, and takes only a few minutes, and might save you an expensive sail repair.

John · Oct 22, 2009

Simple, really: Call the manufacturer or their dealer and get their opinion.

Maine Sail · Oct 22, 2009

John said:
Simple, really: Call the manufacturer or their dealer and get their opinion.

Called Charleston today just to make sure I remembered exactly how my old spar was shipped and that I was not giving incorrect info about the packaging.

Dave at Charleston said:

"Slide halyard swivel to top of the foil and wrap/place foam in a couple places along the foil.

That is pretty much how I remembered my spar shipping. They ship the spars 12 hours to Catalina in FL then Catalina ships boats all over.

Joe · Oct 22, 2009

Always the last word, eh Franklin? What I'm trying to understand is why you would rely on a $4,000 mainsail to "protect" the aluminum extrusion during an unnatural circumstance when a few pieces of foam block would do the same thing. Then your sail could be folded, bagged and stored in the shrink wrapped vessel. Why risk it?

Stu Jackson · Oct 22, 2009

Why...

Joe, it ain't his boat! Or his mainsail.

While he's being a nice guy and helping pk pack it up in TX, I'll be here when pk gets here to help him and welcome him back to CA.

I'm sure Franklin will hear, either way it works out - depending on what pk decides to do.

His boat, his choice, my read is that if one can read, Maine Sail's recommendations are professional, well written and helpful.

Dan Johnson · Oct 23, 2009

I just moved...

a friend's boat to its winter storage marina. The boat in the slip next to the one assigned to us had an in-mast furler without the sail on it. The internals were slapping about and ringing like a sea buoy bell. While halyards may have been tensioned, something was certainly flapping about loose in the mast.

Pull the sail, PK, as everyone has said. Even with the mast down, road motion will certainly create chafing points which could result in a sail replacement. Also, when was the last time you examined your mainsail? You don't get to see it in an in-mast furler like you would if it were dropped onto the boom.