Is it just me or ???????

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N

Nice N Easy

It seems way to common to read on here of boats sunk, missing or in trouble. Also noticed that on my recent trip down the east coast and across the gulf it seemed like a day never went by when I didn't hear somekind of distress call. I make no claims about being the worlds greatest anything, but after two trips down the east coast, I can honestly say I have never been close to calling anyone for help. Last summer crossing from Tampa to Houston with TonyB, we did have some fuel filter problems, and we did call sea tow to bring fuel to us. But we were safely in Mobile bay when we had to call for a fuel delivery. The point here is, are all these people un-prepared, stupid, unlucky or what. I know some are just plain stupid, because I heard one guy on the radio calling for help, the boat was taking on water, four people on board and no life jackets, and he had no clue where he was. But are there really that many ignorant people out there on the water with the rest of us?
 

CalebD

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Jun 27, 2006
1,479
Tartan 27' 1967 Nyack, NY
It is little different in England where

sailors are required to take CG type certification courses. I suspect that over there it is easier to own a motor powered vessel and that as over here we tend to not think much about power boaters sanity. I believe that over there you can be fined, boat confiscated, or whatever if you operate a vessel without a license. On the positive side, it is going to take a bit of time for all of our states to get on a par with licensing rules. The old rules should still apply where anyone who is nearby should help out the knucklhead who has endangered himself, unless that is you.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Six years on the upper chesapeake bay

and I don't recall any distress calls while I have been out. My friend Dobbs works for Sea-Tow and gets called out occasionally but I don't think that a sinking has been in his experience yet.
 
May 18, 2004
64
Morgan 46' Morgan aft cockpit 4 Georgetown, MD
Ross, Last year we heard

Last year we heard a distress call that a 28' cruising catamaran had flipped on the northern part of the bay. Not to start a new thread but Ive seen large cabin cruisers at full speed pass close enough to small sailboats as to almost swamp them. Even our boat although not huge has had our cockpit table cleared on more than one ocassion from the swell of a large cabin cruiser. Just like in motorcycles, its the other guy you need to watch out for. Now, Im Not to bashing on all powerboaters, Im humbled to say last year while cruising we pushed our depth a little to much and grounded ourselves, within 20 mins we had 2 powerboaters offering to pull us off....we accepted their help however neither could get us off....they split and after they left I took the dingy out with the ancor, came back on board and used the windlass to pulled ourselves off. Most of the "in Need" calls I hear are for towing because of fuel or engine problems ects. Even though this is a diverse comunity I think almost everyone out there would help you out in a "TRUE" emergency.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Sailing on the Sassafras on weekends in

the summertime can be an eye opening experience. We like to anchor in the bight across from marker # 10 but not on weekends.
 
T

tom

150 million or so live on east coast

The east coast is very heavily populated and there is bound to be some needing help. But I can only remember hearing one mayday and it was a commercial fisherman lost overboard. I have called for help twice. Once a simple dead battery and I could see the marina but couldn't motor into my slip. The second the prop shaft coupling broke and a towboat towed us a couple of miles to a marina. It was dark and windy and my wife near panic. I dropped the anchor and waited about an hour for the towboat. Neither were emergencys. Think "FREEDOM" whenever anyone talks about passing new laws and regulations. The English have never been free heck they still have a "royal Family" . We had to kill a few englishmen to obtain our freedom. Every since we obtained our freeedom from the english americans have been working night and day to remove freedoms to make a better society. Freedom does allow a person to be stupid and ill prepared. But usually these stupid ill prepared people quickly learn how to boat safely or they move on to another activity. A couple of close calls and they start asking questions and reading. Thankfully sailing is the safest activity you can do. Walking the dog is much more dangerous. Riding a bicycle is outright reckless compared to sailing. Having the government intimately involved in every human activity rubs me the wrong way. The government has no moral high ground. Just look at smoking cigarettes. Arguably the most dangerous human leisure time activity. Since the government collect hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes each year that activity is legal. Maybe if boaters would just pay more taxes the government would leave us alone. Go after some other activity like taking a bath. Hundreds of people die every year taking a bath. Maybe a gov mandated five inch foam padding in every bathtub??? Video cameras to monitor our baths so that they can send help if we get into trouble. Nope I don't agree with this threads basci premise that there are a lot of incompetent boaters. There are new boaters and given a little time they will become competant.
 
M

Mike

Eye opening experience

Ross,your putting it mildly when you say eye opening expeience on the Sassafras. I refuse to sail until we reach the last mark heading out, it's just too dangerous. We've experienced several cases where we were going to be run down, once on our boat, another in a bow rider. In both cases they were 50 plus footers on autopilot and the captains weren't paying attention. Both vessels were running on plane, one was even inside the no wake zone appoaching Skipjack Cove. This guy wasn't even sitting at the helm and missed us by only a few feet. Another had his GPS set for the next mark and I was in his way. I had to call him more than once on the VHF and was ready to take action evasive action when he dropped off plane.Oh and let me finish with the fool that tried to leave the fuel dock pinned with a strong wind on his beam. We were also at the dock ahead of him and when I looked up I saw him approaching fast with the deer in the headlights look. I had to holler and motion him to back it down which he did, missing us by only a few feet. Oh did I mention he had a bow thruster which he didn't bother to use until he was well off the dock? In all cases had any of them hit us there would have been serious injury, possibly fatalities and surely sunken boats. Let's not even get started on our counterparts who choose to blindly tack in front of power boats. Leads me to state "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should". Manadatory licenses?, You bet.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,338
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Licenscing isn't gonna made the idiots

any smarter. We've had this discussion before (archive search on license). Doesn't work to stop car accidents, does it? Now, if we could have a tax on reading??? Maybe it'd help.
 

Shippy

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Jun 1, 2004
272
Hunter 356 Harve de Grace
Distress Call

Although a huge wast of time, resources and money (not to mention distracting the CG from real situations) they can be comical at times. I agree with Nice and Easy that I'm no professional, but I am usually capable of getting myself out of most situations, through preparness, basic training and commion sense and keeping aware of your surroundings. I recall one time on the northern bay when we heard a distress call. Both the Northeast CG and Baltimore CG immediately responded on the VHF. The powerboater was reporting that he was out of fuel and drifting towards land. The CG asked if everyone had the life vests on and that he had set an anchor. He responded negative and didn't know if he had an anchor. Since he was responding as if he was talking on a CB (you know, 10-4 good buddy stuff), the admiral and I tuned in immediately. He described his boat and a land mass that was to his south. We figured it had to be Pooles Island so we turned and headed that way. He confirmed he couldn't find an anchor, the CG tried desperately to ascertain his exact location. He reported he had just picked the boat up (couldn't recall name of dealer but it was near the middle river) and hadn't checked to see how much fuel he had, what equipment or anything. We contuinued stearing towards where we thought he might be. He did report to the CG that he had a GPS on board. Great I and the CG must have thought. He powered it up and read off his coordinates. I wrote down the coordinates and started plugging them into my GPS as the CG asked him to repeat the coordinates again. He did so and the CG reponded that his GPS must not be working because that puts him somewhere in Towson, about 30 miles inland from where he was. Finally another boater reported that he was on the scene and able to anchor and raft up with this guy. The CG said for them to contact the CG again if the situation needed their attention. It's scarey but these types of folks are out there and are totally clueless. I know we all have to start some where, but get real.
 
B

Benny

I have noticed too.

I belive it is due to a change in times. The number of boats has increased over the years which will result in increased incidents. But in my opinion it is mostly due by a change of attitude brought about by ease of communication. With the proliferation of cell phones and the increased number of VHF radios being installed people are leaving their docks not to concerned with preparedness as they feel they can always call for help. Hazard and tow insurance membership offering of complementary services like fuel delivery, jump starts also promotes laxity. I guess the concept of self reliance has changed through the generation gap. Obviously it is the stupid and unprepared that will be at the front of the line making calls on any given day. Unfortunately also the change in times has brought a change in people being more reluctant to stop and help a needing boater. The justification seems to be, let them call their tow service without thinking he may not have the service nor the means. I believe the biggest validation for this point is that the USCG will not provide assistance unles there is danger to life or limb. Luckily offshore there are still the old values at work. :(
 
Feb 15, 2004
735
Hunter 37.5 Balt/Annapolis/New Bern
But if you've been there

when a real distress call goes out, and it's serious, and you can see what's happening, it's bone chilling. It could happen to any one of us in an instant. Last August in a weird sailboat accident, the dinghy caught fire and one crew member died. I still don't understand what happened, but they appeared to be serious cruisers, and I was close enough to see what was going on. The rescue boat passed so close I could almost feel the pain. Earlier last summer, a large cruising sailboat caught fire on the bay near our marina. We could see the smoke and monitor the distress on our radios. Ignorant or not? We're lucky to have the services we do. Unless you've been in their topsiders, I'm not sure you can really say.
 
T

tom

The Boats Bought

Part of the problem is probably the boats being bought as first boats. Here on these message boards several times a year some one will be talking about buying a first boat and they want a 35 footer. Now if you learn the ropes on a smaller boat many of your mistakes aren't so serious. Running aground in a daysailer is usually a harmless event. Same thing with docking but the bigger the boat the bigger the consequences. The same is true with powerboaters. Sure you might lose a shear pin but loses are usually in the few dollar range. Also with a small boat you usually don't go so far from help. But starting out with a 40' trawler it might seem reasonable to motor off shore on a couple hundred mile trip with little preparation. Licensing if mandatory should probably restrict the boat's size due to experience. Maybe nothing large than 22' until you have 5 years of experience. If there are going to be stupid laws they should at least do some good. Horsepower laws would be good too. restrict boat owners to 10 hp or less until they have 5 years experience and make all boat owners keep a log so that they can't leave the dock solo unless they have recent experience. Maybe a dockmaster that has locks on every boat so that it can't leave the dock until the master reviews float plans and equipment. require alarms that go off if the boat is getting low on fuel or the batteries are getting discharges. Maybe a GPS systen that reports the boat's psoition to authorities aevery 15 minutes. While we are at it less make every captain pass a physical every spring so that we know that they are physically capable. And finally (maybe) have every owner submit to a financial audit to prove that they are able to pay for any emergency services that they might require.. I was thinking of making some sort of implant that would sound an alarm to authoriites if someone would take off their PFD but that might be a little too much.
 
M

Mike

Just because you have the money

Just because you have the money to buy it doesn't mean you'll know how to run it. In actuality the dealers should show some responsibility and include boating education in the deal, especially for new boaters.
 

CalebD

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Jun 27, 2006
1,479
Tartan 27' 1967 Nyack, NY
Just to be clear, I'm not an advocate

of state or government licensing for recreational boaters. Insurance rate discounts are offered by most insurers for power squadron or CG Aux. basic seamanship/safety courses which should be enough incentive for most people to take them. Of course, a certificate from either of these is just a piece of paper and what you do out on the water is what counts. If you want to make money on the water you will need CG certificates. A commercial fisherman may need a 6 pack, CPR, Radio and 100 Ton endorsements if his boat is big enough. Their lives are wrapped up in red tape with catch quotas among other things I am happy to not have to be tested on. I do think that many of the items they need we all need too (Radio skills, CPR, safety/medical, MOB etc) and many of you have acquired these skills through time and practice and licensing (HAM comes to mind). I mentioned licensing in England (yes, they are still under the thumb of the queen) not to hold it up as a model to be implemented here. Some states are starting to implement limited licensing requirements for jet skiis as their proliferation has certainly contributed to the proliferation of accidents as well. We could all be caught up in a tug of war between the manufacturers, lawmakers and insurers as the slow process of licensing requirements continues, state by state. I just hope that they stop at jet skiis and pick up again with the very large and gofast guys. Attached link is compendium of CG boating accident statistics by boat type that lawmakers will twist to prove any point they wish.
 
T

tom

2005 good safety record for sailboats

Obviously sailboats are much slower than powerboats except possibly windsurfers and planning hull sailboats. I have passed powerboats while sailing my Laser in higher winds. But we weren't racing but I know tha tthe laser was moving along pretty fast. But probably one of the biggest reasons for sailboat safety is the fact that you have to know something to sail. Not a lot with a Sunfish but something. The statistics are reassuring that sailing is one of the safest things that you can do!!!!!!!! But the world is a dangerous place for stupid people.
 
M

Mike

Not the Go Fast boys that worry me

It's not the jet skis or go fast boys that worry me. They leave very little wake and usually leave plenty of room. It's the middle age guy who's got the bucks to buy the 50 or 60 footer but doesn't bother to get any instructions on how to run it. There's a guy at our marina that chose to go for a 55 footer for his first boat. Yes he's already banged up a few boats with it. Fortunately it's been a result of docking and it's all been minor. Out of all the cases where we've seen accidents or near misses it's been older men on mid to big sized power boats. Maybe the viagra is killing off more brain cells than we originally thought:)
 

CalebD

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Jun 27, 2006
1,479
Tartan 27' 1967 Nyack, NY
In fact, boating deaths have declined

over the last 15 years even as more and more boats are registered. After perusing their statistics the big surprise was the number of accidents involving alcohol! What is it about being on the water that makes beverages taste so good? Another interesting statistic that is borne out by anecdotal eveidence here by some of you Chesapeake sailors is that most accidents occur on weekends in July and August. This is why you motor out into the bay instead of trying to sail and is a smart decision. I was trying to find out how the proliferation of PWCs (jet skiis etc) over the last 20 years has contributed to the CG statistics but could not find it on their report. Dont get me wrong, I have ridden on one and while it was somewhat enjoyable, the experience leaves a lot to be desired when compared to sailing. The smell of the exhaust is a turn off, the pounding action over waves as you go fast is jarring to say the least and the noise. Still, more and more people seem to enjoy doing this at the expense of a quiet afternoon. Oh well.
 
M

Mike

Chessy accidents

Weekends on the bay in July and August are packed. Of course that's when everybody wants to get wet to cool off. It's also when the beer tastes the best. As far as riding a jet ski you abolutely can take a beating unless your in smooth water, then they're a blast. Actually a bit scary they're so fast. I used to ride backwards on one as a spotter for water skiers and it was wild and crazy ride. We'd do it in one of the back creeks where we were the only ones and didn't have to worry about hitting any wakes other than our own. I just love being on the water no matter what I'm in or on. You can bet though when I'm dreaming on a cold winter's night it's of sailing. There's nothing that beats the feeling when the sails fill, and she heels over, driving through it with just the sound of the water rushing by. Agghhhh my blood pressure just dropped thinking about it.
 
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