is it hard to tip a sail boat? mcgregor 26s

Aug 22, 2021
14
1992 mcgregor 26s san diego
I'm not a sailor, I have a combined sail time of 8 hours lol. Went out for the second time today and hit my new speed record of 8.5 knots with a good amount of wind. I may of panicked once or twice when I could reach over and put my hand in the water. My question is realistically how hard is it to tip a sail boat???? Is there any specific wind speed where you should just use the main sail?
 

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Jan 11, 2014
11,323
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Generally, it is pretty hard to capsize a keel boat. It requires a combination of wind and waves that would generally exceed what you would sail in in a Mac 26.

The inclinometer shows a 15° heel, for many boats that is in the range of an optimal heel angle (15° to 25°).

New sailors often find this amount of heel disconcerting. After awhile you get used to life at 20°.

Do your best to spend some time with an experienced sailor. And if you can get on a modestly competitive race boat, do so; you will learn a lot and become more comfortable on a sailboat.
 
Mar 6, 2008
1,078
Catalina 1999 C36 MKII #1787 Coyote Point Marina, CA.
There are data available for your boat indicating at what angle of heel is at no point of return. Even if it does capsize, due to its righting ability it will come back up again. A strong wind will not make it capsize. A strong wind will round up the boat, it will spill the wind and straighten up. It will capsize due to breaking wave that is higher than 1/3 rd of the length of your boat.
 
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Jan 4, 2010
1,037
Farr 30 San Francisco
Get yourself a Laser, they are very easy to tip. Once you have a keelboat not so much, they can certainly lean but they shouldn't tip. What tips a keelboat is waves, breaking waves can roll you. Wind can put you to about 90 degrees, but then the righting force of the keel is maximum and the heeling force of the wind goes to zero. I gather J24's can heel so much that they fill up with water and sink, but that isn't tipping techinically
 
Oct 24, 2010
2,405
Hunter 30 Everett, WA
First off, a McGregor classic which includes the 26D and the 26S sails fastest at about 10 to 15 degrees of heel. The first maybe seven or eight degrees does not take a lot of wind but then it firms up nicely. I think that is a result of the water ballast. They used to advertise that it would take 136 pounds at the tip of the mast to hold the boat horizontal in the water, but in that position unless there are waves coming in water does not enter the boat. It just rests on the side of the boat. Naturally that may change if you have the boat loaded heavily. You will find a lot of people knock the McGregor 26 classic sailboats has junk, but those are people who have never sailed on them. You will sail circles around people with a similar water line but a different model of boat. I'm pretty sure that is because it's overall a lightweight boat with a sleek hull. The D model which is older than your S model was slightly faster because of water turbulence caused by your swing keel trunk. When I had our d model I've had it out past 30° but my wife always decided that was more than enough and I had to set it back up after taking a quick picture. It's really fun to heal it way over but that does not make you go faster It actually slows you down.
 
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Oct 19, 2017
7,732
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Welcome to the best sailing forums to be found in the Web, @stricklandmma. It's great to have you join us.

Your question is a very common question for new sailors. In general, it is pretty hard to sink a sailboat and flipping one over is not easy, even for a dinghy, that is a small, unbalasted one or two person boat. A larger boat, such as a McGregor 26 will usually be able to lay right over on her side and still come back up if the sail isn't under water.

A strong wind will not make it capsize. A strong wind will round up the boat, it will spill the wind and straighten up.
Joe is referring to turning into the wind when he says "round up" And, "spill the wind" means that, as the sail leans over more and more, the wind doesn't push as hard on the sail or pull on the other side. Usually, once the angle gets too low, the hull interrupts the airflow and lift is harder to maintain. The angle of the wind on the sail changes from coming perpendicular to the mast across the sail to an angle more from below and the airfoil shape becomes less effective. Air essentially "spills" out of the sail's concave profile leaving your boat able to swing back up.

A keel boat will 'round up' because as she heels, her keel swings to windward (towards the side the wind is coming from) and cause an asymmetrical drag on the boat. The curve of the hull digging into the water on the leeward side (the side away from the wind) and the shift in the driving force of the sail to the extreme outboard leeward side combine to work the boat towards the wind around the dragging keel.

Wave action can interfere or help at random times and breaking waves over the boat are dangerous, but those are very large and you are unlikely to see such waves as a new sailor who stays close to the harbor while they are learning.

While sailing, adjust the sheet or the traveller (I don't know if the Mac has a traveller) by letting the sails out just until you see that beautiful tight wing shaped curve in the sail "luff" a tiny amount. "Luffing" means the sail next to the mast looses that smooth airflow across it and starts to curve the wrong way. After you see the sail just begin to luff, tighten the sail back in so it just loses its luff and is a nice tight wing shape again. This insures you haven't pulled the sail in too tight, using the wind more to heel than to drive the boat.

Also, don't fight the tiller. If you are pulling hard on the tiller to keep the boat from rounding up, you may be sailing to close to the wind, fall off a little and adjust the sails out as described above. Sailing too close to the wind (towards the wind) and having to fight the tiller can cause the boat to slow down as the rudder drags at an angle through the water and that angle will also encourage the keel to surf towards the surface (more heeling).

8+ knots is an impressive speed in any sailboat. It must have been a very fun day. Sorry I wasn't there with you.

Exciting times ahead, keep us posted.

-Will
 
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Tedd

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Jul 25, 2013
745
TES 246 Versus near Vancouver, BC
What @Ken Cross said. I would also add that I found that my Mac 26S liked to be reefed at anything above about ten knots of wind. Because the boat is so light you don't loose much speed by reefing early, if any at all. And it puts you in a better situation if the wind picks up even more.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,323
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
First off, a McGregor classic which includes the 26D and the 26S sails fastest at about 10 to 15 degrees of heel. The first maybe seven or eight degrees does not take a lot of wind but then it firms up nicely. I think that is a result of the water ballast.
The ballast is part of the equation, however, hull shape plays a bigger role. To learn more about this use a canoe. The old aluminum Grumman canoes had very flat bottoms that made them initially stable, but once tipped over, they would capsize very quickly. Canoes with more rounded bottoms tend to be initially unstable, however as they tip they become more stable.

The same holds true for sailboats. Once it starts to heel, the boat becomes more stable.
 

AndyVS

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Sep 4, 2015
56
Corsair 31 UC 179 Port Sanilac
In 6 years I have never been able to knock down my 26s. I sure it is possible if you heel the boat over too far and a big wave hits you on the beam. Keeping both hatch covers closed and latched is important in big seas. The more you heel, the stronger the weather helm and at 35 or 40, there can be a lot of pressure on the rudder & brackets which could cause damage. While it's not as fast to heel the boat way over, it does teach you the boat's and your limits. I also ask my passenger(s) what their limits are. It's hard enough to find people to sail with you, I don't want to be scaring them off. I've also had some teenage girls that wanted to sit on the low side and get their hair wet when they leaned back. Of course, I obliged.

We've sailed in 25 knots with a storm jib and a double reefed main with experienced crew. I don't take people that just want to go for a ride at anything over 15 knots. I have sailed with just double reefed main and no jib and it's good for heavy weather but sluggish to tack. While the Mac can be sailed in higher winds, it is at heart a lightweight boat.

Andy
 
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Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
What do you mean by tipping ?


The boat leaning/heeling over 30 degrees ?
The boat laying on it's side 95 degrees ?

The boat fully capsizing and possibly staying that way ?

All have different answers and depend on wind and wave conditions, the specific sailboat, and the skill of the sailor.

See posts above for some answers, but maybe post.some more detail to your question.
 
Feb 21, 2013
4,638
Hunter 46 Point Richmond, CA
..........question is realistically how hard is it to tip a sail boat???? Is there any specific wind speed where you should just use the main sail?
Welcome to the forum!!

Relatively easy to tip, i.e., heel, espeacially with full sails on a close-hauled to beam reach. To counter that, let the main sail out with the mainsheet AND don’t hesitate to reef when it blows hard. The boat will be more manageable and usually faster. To reef the mainsheet, refer to your owner's manual attached and reef the roller jib furler, if you have one, OR take the jib sail down and replace it will a smaller sail, even a storm sail, if you have one.
 

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May 24, 2004
7,129
CC 30 South Florida
Hold your horses, no one I know can push a MacGregor 26 to a speed record of 8.5 knots. It would be generous to say that a Mac 26 could do a clean 6 knots. You must have measured your speed by GPS and did not realize you were being helped by a current of 2.5 to 3 knots. If you want to measure your boat's speed by GPS you have to do two measured consecutive runs on opposite courses. As far as knocking down a boat it depends on the boat. Some will loose rudder bite and turn into the wind while others will require to heel over the point of no return but usually both would require assistance from gusting winds and waves. Boats tend to move faster as the wetted surface of the hull increases and not necessarily the angle of heel. Some boats sail faster upright than when they are heeled. Check your boat specs as far as stability, wetted surface, sail area, displacement and figure out your limits.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,323
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Hold your horses, no one I know can push a MacGregor 26 to a speed record of 8.5 knots. It would be generous to say that a Mac 26 could do a clean 6 knots. You must have measured your speed by GPS and did not realize you were being helped by a current of 2.5 to 3 knots. If you want to measure your boat's speed by GPS you have to do two measured consecutive runs on opposite courses. As far as knocking down a boat it depends on the boat. Some will loose rudder bite and turn into the wind while others will require to heel over the point of no return but usually both would require assistance from gusting winds and waves. Boats tend to move faster as the wetted surface of the hull increases and not necessarily the angle of heel. Some boats sail faster upright than when they are heeled. Check your boat specs as far as stability, wetted surface, sail area, displacement and figure out your limits.
Yep, 8.5 knots is kind of high for a 26 foot boat that is not a planing sport boat. Several possible reasons in addition to using GPS SOG as a measure.

At the top of the list is the false equivalency of nautical miles per hour and statute miles per hour. Since a nautical mile is 6,080 feet and a statute mile is 5,280 feet, a knot is about 20% faster than a mph. If the knot meter is calibrated for statute miles, then 8.5 statue miles is more like 7 knots, still fast for a 26' Macgreggor.

And then this assumes the knot meter has actually been calibrated. How many people her have taken the time to accurately calibrate their knot meter and not just assume it is correct out of the box? ;)

The knotmeter measures the speed of the water moving past the impeller. Depending on where the impeller is placed the reading can be higher or lower than the boat's actual speed through the water.
 
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Jun 9, 2008
1,771
- -- -Bayfield
What this is all about has to do with the righting moment of a boat. Righting moment is determined with regard to how the center of buoyancy, the center of gravity, the angle of heel as a result of the wind on the sails (combined center effort of the main and jib) and crew weight on the high side relate to each other. You can find diagrams on line to explain this in detail. Simply put, with a keel boat, the more it heels over, the more stable it becomes. That is because the keel, acting as a counter weight changes the center of gravity and as the boat heels over, the center of buoyancy also changes essentially distancing each other, so that the righting arm increases as does resistance to heel. In addition, the wind, as the angle of the sails decrease their exposure to the wind, spills over which also has an effect to help reduce heel. A boat with a very deep keel extends that center of gravity lower. A shoal keel boat has a great deal more ballast weight which is required because it doesn't extend lower from the hull. A water ballasted boat has the ballast inside the hull. So, since it doesn't protrude lower in the water like a keel would, the combined center of effort of the sail plan is usually lower (shorter mast and lower sail plan) to help compensate that. A boat with a swing keel has an adequate amount of ballast in the movable keel to amply offer righting moment. However, sometimes when those keels are in the up position, the boat may not be self righting. Angle of heel also can be adjusted by altering the position of swing keel, or the adjustment of the genoa lead to depower the rig, reefing the sail plan, etc.
 
Mar 30, 2013
700
Allied Seawind MK II 32' Oologah Lake, Oklahoma
My 1st boat was a Mac 26S.I made my share of mistakes with it and had more than a few pucker moments but the boat never let me down. The Mac 26s has built in positive buoyancy and are theoretically unsinkable.
Something to keep in mind. I "knew" in my head that the boat wouldn't just tip over, it took a year or so to convince my butt of that fact.