Here in the midwest (Missouri, Kansas) we had a real sailing boom in the 1980's. Lots of people took up the sport for the first time, we had three or four dealers in the Kansas City area selling sailboats, and so on. We also have several decent sailing lakes within 90 minutes of KC. Since the mid 90's we have had no sailboat dealers, and it's hit or miss on whether most marinas can support sailboats properly. The boats for sale in the newspaper tend to be older and older, as though the inventory created in the 1980's is just being recirculated a bit. Is this a trend you have noticed in your area, or is this just a phenomenon peculiar to my city?
Is inland sailing declining?
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TN Experiences
I've been involved in sailing since the late 70's in the Memphis, TN area. At that time, we had two sailboat dealers in Memphis. One of them got out of the business in the 80's. The other one is still around - doing a booming business both in new boat sales and used sales. Sometimes too busy to take care of all his customers
At my home lake on the TN River, I would say we have about the same number of sailboats as the early 80's - maybe a few more? And about as active a sailing/racing group. At a nearby MS lake, we had one of the most active lightning fleets in the country when I was racing in the late 70's to early 80's. I haven't been there in a while, but I think they are still pretty active. So I can't say that I share your experiences, for what it's worth.
I've been involved in sailing since the late 70's in the Memphis, TN area. At that time, we had two sailboat dealers in Memphis. One of them got out of the business in the 80's. The other one is still around - doing a booming business both in new boat sales and used sales. Sometimes too busy to take care of all his customers
At my home lake on the TN River, I would say we have about the same number of sailboats as the early 80's - maybe a few more? And about as active a sailing/racing group. At a nearby MS lake, we had one of the most active lightning fleets in the country when I was racing in the late 70's to early 80's. I haven't been there in a while, but I think they are still pretty active. So I can't say that I share your experiences, for what it's worth.We've Moved to Florida
We were Kansas City sailors for several years. We moved the boat to Florida about 11 years ago and moved ourselves 10 years ago. We sailed on Lake Perry, KS and several of our sailing friends have moved to Florida or California. Maybe that's whats happening to KS/MO sailing, we all are moving to bigger water. Bill
We were Kansas City sailors for several years. We moved the boat to Florida about 11 years ago and moved ourselves 10 years ago. We sailed on Lake Perry, KS and several of our sailing friends have moved to Florida or California. Maybe that's whats happening to KS/MO sailing, we all are moving to bigger water. Bill
americans look for the quick fix.....
most of the young folks want immediate adrenaline....they want "extreme" sport, therefore... personal watercraft have taken over where beach cats left off. You don't need a brain to operate a PWC and that attracts a lot of the adrenaline junkies who would have been into beach cat or dinghy sailing back in the 70's and 80's.
most of the young folks want immediate adrenaline....they want "extreme" sport, therefore... personal watercraft have taken over where beach cats left off. You don't need a brain to operate a PWC and that attracts a lot of the adrenaline junkies who would have been into beach cat or dinghy sailing back in the 70's and 80's.
BUNCHES' of SAIL BOATS HERE...
This coastal area of KEMAH, TEXAS seems to be "sailing country"...lots of boats here and seems to be growing. Marinas are near capacity, some full. Holidays are sail boat traffic jams...and on July 4th, I turned back to the MARINA(just too crowded to watch fireworks displays). This is a great sailing community...bunch-a-nice folks.
This coastal area of KEMAH, TEXAS seems to be "sailing country"...lots of boats here and seems to be growing. Marinas are near capacity, some full. Holidays are sail boat traffic jams...and on July 4th, I turned back to the MARINA(just too crowded to watch fireworks displays). This is a great sailing community...bunch-a-nice folks.
Blame the young folks?
It's all those old baby-boomers dying off, switching to powerboats, especially trawlers, and even leaving boating for RVing... after buying all those new sailboats in the 70's and 80's that are still around today and competing with new boat sales in a smaller market. ;-)
It's all those old baby-boomers dying off, switching to powerboats, especially trawlers, and even leaving boating for RVing... after buying all those new sailboats in the 70's and 80's that are still around today and competing with new boat sales in a smaller market. ;-)
We sail Lake Michigan, and
It almost seemed like there were more sails out there then power boaters, but then we were about 12 miles off shore. Had a great weekend. Tom s/v GAIA
It almost seemed like there were more sails out there then power boaters, but then we were about 12 miles off shore. Had a great weekend. Tom s/v GAIA
midwestern guilt
I just finished putting my Oday 25 on this website selling block and went to the Forum to see what is happening. After reading this thread, I felt a bit of guilt about selling my midwest-based sailboat. However, I got over it real quickly as I have already bought a bigger boat and staying put. The StL area sailing is still strong. We keep a full service sail dealer in business along with a few marina based service companies. Lake of the Ozarks is nutso. You need an ocean liner on that lake anymore to take the huge wakes. I refuse to go there. My home port at Lake Carlyle, IL, about 50 miles east of STL has a very strong sailboat following supporting the 4 marinas. Its an awesome lake. There are a couple 38 footers moored here too - go figure. Often I will sail during the middle of the week and have the entire lake to myself - great! Looking forward to trying a few lakes farther south too. steve!
I just finished putting my Oday 25 on this website selling block and went to the Forum to see what is happening. After reading this thread, I felt a bit of guilt about selling my midwest-based sailboat. However, I got over it real quickly as I have already bought a bigger boat and staying put. The StL area sailing is still strong. We keep a full service sail dealer in business along with a few marina based service companies. Lake of the Ozarks is nutso. You need an ocean liner on that lake anymore to take the huge wakes. I refuse to go there. My home port at Lake Carlyle, IL, about 50 miles east of STL has a very strong sailboat following supporting the 4 marinas. Its an awesome lake. There are a couple 38 footers moored here too - go figure. Often I will sail during the middle of the week and have the entire lake to myself - great! Looking forward to trying a few lakes farther south too. steve!
Sailing In Iowa
I sail at a lake about 2 hours from my house. I just sold my H26 and am moving up to a Catalina 28. The marina down there is full of sail boats. All the stinkpots come in on the weekends. We have a DNR guy who I belive is a sailor. He will come up to a sail boat and ask if the power boaters are causing troube and go with them. We have a good marina and nice deep waters. We even have a guy down there with a brand new C&C 38. Jason
I sail at a lake about 2 hours from my house. I just sold my H26 and am moving up to a Catalina 28. The marina down there is full of sail boats. All the stinkpots come in on the weekends. We have a DNR guy who I belive is a sailor. He will come up to a sail boat and ask if the power boaters are causing troube and go with them. We have a good marina and nice deep waters. We even have a guy down there with a brand new C&C 38. Jason
Lake Hartwell SC is alive
Seems like sailing in the lakes of the SC upstate is healthy. There are alot of powerboats ( I have one too) but the turn over in ownership is higher and the use seems lower (comparing the sailboat marina with the powerboat marina where I keep my boats.) We also have a sailclub and the members are avid about promoting sailing and their club. It is truly a great family oriented effort and activity. My sons (13 and 7) both like the sailboat as much or more than our powerboat. They also see benefits in having both. I think PWC use on the lake is really down this summer - not sure if the stats would support this observation - might be just the conditions are so different where we sail vs where riders like to ride PWC? Besides - the next adrenalin junkie sport - as we all know - is kiteboarding - a wonderful wind-powered sport! Best regards, Ken
Seems like sailing in the lakes of the SC upstate is healthy. There are alot of powerboats ( I have one too) but the turn over in ownership is higher and the use seems lower (comparing the sailboat marina with the powerboat marina where I keep my boats.) We also have a sailclub and the members are avid about promoting sailing and their club. It is truly a great family oriented effort and activity. My sons (13 and 7) both like the sailboat as much or more than our powerboat. They also see benefits in having both. I think PWC use on the lake is really down this summer - not sure if the stats would support this observation - might be just the conditions are so different where we sail vs where riders like to ride PWC? Besides - the next adrenalin junkie sport - as we all know - is kiteboarding - a wonderful wind-powered sport! Best regards, Ken
Sort of!
I have sailed on Lake Perry in Kansas for about 30 years and there are more sailboats on the lake now than before. There never were any dealers here that lasted all that long and yes, many of the boats are older and most have come from other areas. Also the boats are larger than ever before. What is really happening is that day sailors and racing has declined. I would guess that there are about 250 plus cruising sailboats on a lake that is about 10 miles long. It is not ever very crowded but good sailing with better than average wind.
I have sailed on Lake Perry in Kansas for about 30 years and there are more sailboats on the lake now than before. There never were any dealers here that lasted all that long and yes, many of the boats are older and most have come from other areas. Also the boats are larger than ever before. What is really happening is that day sailors and racing has declined. I would guess that there are about 250 plus cruising sailboats on a lake that is about 10 miles long. It is not ever very crowded but good sailing with better than average wind.
Not as many sailors on Lake Candlewood
Seems that there are far fewer sailboats on Lake Candlewood in Connecticut. I have been sailling there for three years. Mine is the only sailboat at my small marina. THere defintely are plenty of us, but far far outnumbered by PWCs, skiers, and boats pulling those inflatable things. Plenty of fishermen too. Most all get along fine - as always, its the few morons out there that make things annoying or dangerous for themselves and the others. Don't give up!
Seems that there are far fewer sailboats on Lake Candlewood in Connecticut. I have been sailling there for three years. Mine is the only sailboat at my small marina. THere defintely are plenty of us, but far far outnumbered by PWCs, skiers, and boats pulling those inflatable things. Plenty of fishermen too. Most all get along fine - as always, its the few morons out there that make things annoying or dangerous for themselves and the others. Don't give up!
JASON
Jason: Where do you sail? I used to live in C.R. and now live in Chicago with a boat in Monroe Harbor.
Jason: Where do you sail? I used to live in C.R. and now live in Chicago with a boat in Monroe Harbor.
Lake Sailing
It's very interesting hearing about Lake sailing. Short of the Great Lakes, it's amazing to me that so many sailboats sail on such little water. One response mentioned a 10 mile lake with 250 sailboats on it! Just the entrance of the harbor I sail on is at least 7 miles long. Considering draft, wind and space, sailing inland must be a completely different experience.
It's very interesting hearing about Lake sailing. Short of the Great Lakes, it's amazing to me that so many sailboats sail on such little water. One response mentioned a 10 mile lake with 250 sailboats on it! Just the entrance of the harbor I sail on is at least 7 miles long. Considering draft, wind and space, sailing inland must be a completely different experience.
Lake of the Ozarks sailing
Still a number of sailors here and there is a Catalina dealer here that has sold several new boats recently.
Still a number of sailors here and there is a Catalina dealer here that has sold several new boats recently.
To The Rock, Done both Big and Little Water
I grew up on Lake Erie, mostly power boating and occasionally sailing. Moved to Indiana and have been sailing an 3000 acre inland lake for the past 7 years. My wife and I had missed the open water so we moved to Lake Erie this summer. To tell you the truth, we liked the smaller lake better and are moving back. It was nice to set the sails and go for hours if you wanted to but the small lake with it's shifty wind, manuevers and boat traffic is just alot more fun. We also have a very active sailing community on Lake Wawasee.
I grew up on Lake Erie, mostly power boating and occasionally sailing. Moved to Indiana and have been sailing an 3000 acre inland lake for the past 7 years. My wife and I had missed the open water so we moved to Lake Erie this summer. To tell you the truth, we liked the smaller lake better and are moving back. It was nice to set the sails and go for hours if you wanted to but the small lake with it's shifty wind, manuevers and boat traffic is just alot more fun. We also have a very active sailing community on Lake Wawasee.
Don't forget the Luxury Tax
One event that needs to be considered is the imposition of a Federal "luxury tax" on boat sales around 1989; this tax killed off a large number of the boat makers and dealers at the time, kind of like the Chicxulub meteor killing off the dinosaurs. Whether this tax also had a chilling effect on potential boat buyers and kept them out of the sport is hard to say, but can't be discounted. Remember also that BoatUS has reported more than once in the last couple of years in its magazine that sailboats make up only a very small portion of the recreational boat fleet, around 5 or 6%. If there are a hundred boats using a lake one would expect only 5 or 6 to be sailboats; with that small a sample, if those 5 families do other things for a summer there may be no sailors on the lake that year. I know nothing about the long-term trends in one-design class sailing since I've only been sailing a couple of years, but I see almost no dinghy racing in the sailboat-friendly waters of Eastern Long Island Sound, so it may be that small-boat sailing is in decline everywhere...
One event that needs to be considered is the imposition of a Federal "luxury tax" on boat sales around 1989; this tax killed off a large number of the boat makers and dealers at the time, kind of like the Chicxulub meteor killing off the dinosaurs. Whether this tax also had a chilling effect on potential boat buyers and kept them out of the sport is hard to say, but can't be discounted. Remember also that BoatUS has reported more than once in the last couple of years in its magazine that sailboats make up only a very small portion of the recreational boat fleet, around 5 or 6%. If there are a hundred boats using a lake one would expect only 5 or 6 to be sailboats; with that small a sample, if those 5 families do other things for a summer there may be no sailors on the lake that year. I know nothing about the long-term trends in one-design class sailing since I've only been sailing a couple of years, but I see almost no dinghy racing in the sailboat-friendly waters of Eastern Long Island Sound, so it may be that small-boat sailing is in decline everywhere...
Lake Arthur
Years ago we docked a 16' daysailer then a 19' MFG on Lake Arthur in Moraine St. Park, PA. The MFG's were made fairly close by and there was a dealership even closer. It was kind of cool having 5 or 6 of us together. Arthur is rather small with a 10 HP limit. On decent days, 100+ sailboats out sailing was not uncommon. We live 5 minutes from our dock on Erie, and you can't beat the convenience, but we miss those days on Lake Arthur. Gunkholing into the little coves and sailing over to the beaches was a lot of fun, especially with young children. I will say the State Park marina operators were downright hostile towards out of state boats at times (even though we went through their lottery process and paid about 2x residents to dock there). George - what's it like on Lake Arthur these days? Is the Marina still full? I'm probably just overly nostalgic as we get ready to send our youngest off to college this Saturday.
Years ago we docked a 16' daysailer then a 19' MFG on Lake Arthur in Moraine St. Park, PA. The MFG's were made fairly close by and there was a dealership even closer. It was kind of cool having 5 or 6 of us together. Arthur is rather small with a 10 HP limit. On decent days, 100+ sailboats out sailing was not uncommon. We live 5 minutes from our dock on Erie, and you can't beat the convenience, but we miss those days on Lake Arthur. Gunkholing into the little coves and sailing over to the beaches was a lot of fun, especially with young children. I will say the State Park marina operators were downright hostile towards out of state boats at times (even though we went through their lottery process and paid about 2x residents to dock there). George - what's it like on Lake Arthur these days? Is the Marina still full? I'm probably just overly nostalgic as we get ready to send our youngest off to college this Saturday.
Things May Change
Todays headlines say a AAA gas price survey reported the national average is now $2.46/gal which is the highest it's been in years. The front page of the Bremerton paper also had an article about gas prices and qoted the driver of a late model Surburban that he'd like to sell it but can't find a buyer (probably is "upside down" in the payments). Back in the 70s and early 80s gas was expensive and that may have been one of the reasons why sailboat sails were good. Back then gas prices were high due to political reasons (artifical supply and demand) and now it's more of a supply and demand pressure which doesn't look well for the future. It may take a while for the statistics to show what's hapening but it wouldn't be a surprise to see powerboats, especially the "gas guzzler" types, have reduced sales and conversely, sailboats show an increase. My brother-in-law's twin-screw burns about a $1/minute at cruise (whoa - a buck a minute???) and they stayed close to home this year taking a few short cruises vice the big long one. Not only that but nearly every powerboater in their marina stayed close to home too, and their yacht club summer cruise wasn't very far away either, about 1/4 the distance of last year's. There probably will be a problem with the larger trailerables because of the tow rig size required. Who wants to drive a bug Surburban all year just to take the boat to the launch ramp? The smart manufacturers will be wise to start designing for lighter-weight boats so smaller vehicles can tow them. Likewise maybe Detroit could come up with smaller vehicles with better towing capabilies. It'll be interesting to see what happens. I still have my old 16-ft Falcon daysailer that I haven't used in years so maybe I should pull the cover off and sweep out the cobwebs? That was a really good little boat - slept two AND had room for food and gear plus towed easily.
Todays headlines say a AAA gas price survey reported the national average is now $2.46/gal which is the highest it's been in years. The front page of the Bremerton paper also had an article about gas prices and qoted the driver of a late model Surburban that he'd like to sell it but can't find a buyer (probably is "upside down" in the payments). Back in the 70s and early 80s gas was expensive and that may have been one of the reasons why sailboat sails were good. Back then gas prices were high due to political reasons (artifical supply and demand) and now it's more of a supply and demand pressure which doesn't look well for the future. It may take a while for the statistics to show what's hapening but it wouldn't be a surprise to see powerboats, especially the "gas guzzler" types, have reduced sales and conversely, sailboats show an increase. My brother-in-law's twin-screw burns about a $1/minute at cruise (whoa - a buck a minute???) and they stayed close to home this year taking a few short cruises vice the big long one. Not only that but nearly every powerboater in their marina stayed close to home too, and their yacht club summer cruise wasn't very far away either, about 1/4 the distance of last year's. There probably will be a problem with the larger trailerables because of the tow rig size required. Who wants to drive a bug Surburban all year just to take the boat to the launch ramp? The smart manufacturers will be wise to start designing for lighter-weight boats so smaller vehicles can tow them. Likewise maybe Detroit could come up with smaller vehicles with better towing capabilies. It'll be interesting to see what happens. I still have my old 16-ft Falcon daysailer that I haven't used in years so maybe I should pull the cover off and sweep out the cobwebs? That was a really good little boat - slept two AND had room for food and gear plus towed easily.
To Jason and Bob
We, too, used to live in CR and now sail out of Chicago (Montrose). Ned and Tani Strain s/v Family Therapy 1995 h336
We, too, used to live in CR and now sail out of Chicago (Montrose). Ned and Tani Strain s/v Family Therapy 1995 h336
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