What's your response to another US failure in the America's Cup series? What went wrong? Tactics, skipper, crew, boat... or is the race itself broken? Do you care? Weigh in with your armchair analysis and don't forget to vote in the Quick Quiz at the bottom of the home page.
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No Interest
Having participated in two of the Intrepid campaigns, and having watched what is going on NOW. Folks must realize this is a rich man's game. We the average sailor have nothing in common with the current America's Cup Activities.
Having participated in two of the Intrepid campaigns, and having watched what is going on NOW. Folks must realize this is a rich man's game. We the average sailor have nothing in common with the current America's Cup Activities.
My Humble Opinion
Why do rich people all think they know what is best for the rest, same in politics and racing. Get the right captain and develope a crew and win. Just look at the old photos of the races in Newport, RI. They had style and class. Crews making a boat work and winning. Today it's all about technology and not the race itself. Let's go back and enjoy this life instead of ruuning through it. Just my humble opinion
Why do rich people all think they know what is best for the rest, same in politics and racing. Get the right captain and develope a crew and win. Just look at the old photos of the races in Newport, RI. They had style and class. Crews making a boat work and winning. Today it's all about technology and not the race itself. Let's go back and enjoy this life instead of ruuning through it. Just my humble opinion
Cup Confusion
In the beginning, the America's Cup was a nationality driven group of sailors from different countries competing for their country's bragging rights on sailing prowess. Now, the corporations have so diluted the crews that nationality no longer is identifiable, somehow justifying the advertising dollar expenditure in their minds. It's a shame that this once prestigious effort has now been reduced to an exercise of corporate arrogance. When will we learn the value of national pride and the competitive spirit. It's no wonder we don't follow the race. There is little of value in winning other than the technological advancements and legal wrangling to allow some teams to 'push the envelope' of design - there is no unified effort as a team to promote the rewards of human cooperation.
In the beginning, the America's Cup was a nationality driven group of sailors from different countries competing for their country's bragging rights on sailing prowess. Now, the corporations have so diluted the crews that nationality no longer is identifiable, somehow justifying the advertising dollar expenditure in their minds. It's a shame that this once prestigious effort has now been reduced to an exercise of corporate arrogance. When will we learn the value of national pride and the competitive spirit. It's no wonder we don't follow the race. There is little of value in winning other than the technological advancements and legal wrangling to allow some teams to 'push the envelope' of design - there is no unified effort as a team to promote the rewards of human cooperation.
some trickle-down developments, some Americans
Every now and then some new developments come out of the vast effort put into the Cup defense. Those products, techniques and materials trickle down to make our small boats better or easier to handle. There are still a few competitive Americans involved in this event. Two of the 17 on board the New Zeeland boat are Americans in important slots, tactician and navigator. The coach of the Italian team, Luna Rossa, is an American and has had a lot to do with that program. He is not on the boat but certainly a key person in getting that boat into the playoffs. Enjoy the show and be happy you do not have to pay the bill. Those people cannot "take it with them" so letting some cash flow into the hands of others may be no worse than a large dormant savings account.
Every now and then some new developments come out of the vast effort put into the Cup defense. Those products, techniques and materials trickle down to make our small boats better or easier to handle. There are still a few competitive Americans involved in this event. Two of the 17 on board the New Zeeland boat are Americans in important slots, tactician and navigator. The coach of the Italian team, Luna Rossa, is an American and has had a lot to do with that program. He is not on the boat but certainly a key person in getting that boat into the playoffs. Enjoy the show and be happy you do not have to pay the bill. Those people cannot "take it with them" so letting some cash flow into the hands of others may be no worse than a large dormant savings account.
Passing Interest
As my mates across the Tasman in New Zealand build a challenge, I have some interest in the cup. Americans invented professional sports with big money and the name Americas Cup seems appropriate. The early days off Newport RI might have had style and class, but look behind the scenes as challenging yachts had to sail across the oceans to compete in a mill pond. No appologies from the Aussie for taking the cup from the New York Yacht club in 1983 (they had it for too long anyway) and thankfully countries like New Zealand continue to support the competition. After the challenge in Perth, the cup was empty. I woud say it is now half full.
As my mates across the Tasman in New Zealand build a challenge, I have some interest in the cup. Americans invented professional sports with big money and the name Americas Cup seems appropriate. The early days off Newport RI might have had style and class, but look behind the scenes as challenging yachts had to sail across the oceans to compete in a mill pond. No appologies from the Aussie for taking the cup from the New York Yacht club in 1983 (they had it for too long anyway) and thankfully countries like New Zealand continue to support the competition. After the challenge in Perth, the cup was empty. I woud say it is now half full.
Americas Cup intrigue
The Americas Cup has always been full of intrigue. For example in the early days the challenger had to sail to the regatta, meaning a heavy sea-worthy boat, and the challenger could only have one boat at its disposal while the defender (then the USA) could have a whole fleet available and choose a different boat each day depending on the conditions. That said, I agree that money and technology now dominate the Cup. However, the boats are now so evenly matched that the skill of the crew (particularly the afterguard) is the dominating factor. As far as the loss by BMW-Oracle is concerned, I attribute it largely to a lack of team spirit and the personality of the Skipper. Here was a case of it being all money and no spirit among the crew. I join with all who would like to see the crews and boats be limited to the country of origin of the boats, so that the national spirit could be enhanced. I think there is still a lot of national pride in most of the other countries of the challengers (New Zealand, South Africa, Spain, etc). Being a Kiwi myself, my 88 year old mother (who knows nothing about sailing) wakes up each night to watch the races, they start at 2am there. So does the rest of my family, and I understand that much of the country does the same thing. The NZ government invested heavily in the campaign, and I believe the Kiwi boat has by far the largest contingent of home-grown sailors on board.
The Americas Cup has always been full of intrigue. For example in the early days the challenger had to sail to the regatta, meaning a heavy sea-worthy boat, and the challenger could only have one boat at its disposal while the defender (then the USA) could have a whole fleet available and choose a different boat each day depending on the conditions. That said, I agree that money and technology now dominate the Cup. However, the boats are now so evenly matched that the skill of the crew (particularly the afterguard) is the dominating factor. As far as the loss by BMW-Oracle is concerned, I attribute it largely to a lack of team spirit and the personality of the Skipper. Here was a case of it being all money and no spirit among the crew. I join with all who would like to see the crews and boats be limited to the country of origin of the boats, so that the national spirit could be enhanced. I think there is still a lot of national pride in most of the other countries of the challengers (New Zealand, South Africa, Spain, etc). Being a Kiwi myself, my 88 year old mother (who knows nothing about sailing) wakes up each night to watch the races, they start at 2am there. So does the rest of my family, and I understand that much of the country does the same thing. The NZ government invested heavily in the campaign, and I believe the Kiwi boat has by far the largest contingent of home-grown sailors on board.
Further random thoughts...
In the good old days the Americas Cup was a source of US national pride because the cup was held undefeated for so long, and every few years some upstart yacht club from a distant country would come along to be dealt their come-uppance by the almighty US
The country rallied behind the flag, and took a strong interest in watching the challengers being sent home. Don't forget that in those days technology was also a strong factor in boat design, it just wasn't so expensive. Then when the Aussies finally took the cup away, the magic was gone. The US was no longer invincible. Then, there were all sorts of shenanigans in playing with the rules, such as the Big Boat vs. the catamaran that made the Cup somewhat laughable. I think that the move back to class rules was a good thing. Let me make a comment about US sports in general: money dominates all sports here. You just have to look at baseball and football. Teams are not local teams, they are a collection of the best talent money can buy, and the players are traded around like commodities. The same thing has happened to sailing at the level of the Cup. At the same time, international sports news coverage here is extremely nationalistic. Take for example coverage of the Olympics. I have watched TV coverage in several countries; in countries other than the US the coverage has been (in my experience) much more balanced, with much less of a nationalistic bias. Here, if the US is not strongly represented in an event, it probably won't be even shown. The same sort of nationalistic news coverage of the Cup seems to dominate. The only news report I heard (and we have the news on morning and night) was when BMW-Oracle defeated Luna Rossa. Otherwise the AC hasn't existed on the national news. No wonder there is little interest in the US.
In the good old days the Americas Cup was a source of US national pride because the cup was held undefeated for so long, and every few years some upstart yacht club from a distant country would come along to be dealt their come-uppance by the almighty US
The country rallied behind the flag, and took a strong interest in watching the challengers being sent home. Don't forget that in those days technology was also a strong factor in boat design, it just wasn't so expensive. Then when the Aussies finally took the cup away, the magic was gone. The US was no longer invincible. Then, there were all sorts of shenanigans in playing with the rules, such as the Big Boat vs. the catamaran that made the Cup somewhat laughable. I think that the move back to class rules was a good thing. Let me make a comment about US sports in general: money dominates all sports here. You just have to look at baseball and football. Teams are not local teams, they are a collection of the best talent money can buy, and the players are traded around like commodities. The same thing has happened to sailing at the level of the Cup. At the same time, international sports news coverage here is extremely nationalistic. Take for example coverage of the Olympics. I have watched TV coverage in several countries; in countries other than the US the coverage has been (in my experience) much more balanced, with much less of a nationalistic bias. Here, if the US is not strongly represented in an event, it probably won't be even shown. The same sort of nationalistic news coverage of the Cup seems to dominate. The only news report I heard (and we have the news on morning and night) was when BMW-Oracle defeated Luna Rossa. Otherwise the AC hasn't existed on the national news. No wonder there is little interest in the US.
To answer your questions
One. Americas failure? I don't feel America failed . Other countries advanced. Two. The race isn't broken. Because we aren't in the number one spot? You call it broken? I call that whining? Three. Do I care? I like the advancements they contribute to the sailing industry and the jobs they produce. My opinion. Big money, no coverage, boring. More commercials than substance. It's that money thingy, rearing it's ugly head once again. Keep it up, Ctskip
One. Americas failure? I don't feel America failed . Other countries advanced. Two. The race isn't broken. Because we aren't in the number one spot? You call it broken? I call that whining? Three. Do I care? I like the advancements they contribute to the sailing industry and the jobs they produce. My opinion. Big money, no coverage, boring. More commercials than substance. It's that money thingy, rearing it's ugly head once again. Keep it up, Ctskip
It's Not About Half Empty...
...it's about being DRY. It is all over. The US threw enough money at it and now the challenge has foundered - we got too big for our britches - and spent an unbelievable anount of money on a challenge.
...it's about being DRY. It is all over. The US threw enough money at it and now the challenge has foundered - we got too big for our britches - and spent an unbelievable anount of money on a challenge.
All about the money
America's Cup racing is like the space program. It costs millions and millions of dollars to compete, the average joe can only watch from the sidelines, and the development of innovative products trickle down to the masses several years later. I used to follow the races with interest, once was in San Diego when they were racing, and actually saw several of the boats up close. Now the news of the races is only a blip on the radar screen. I don't think the race is broken, but it has ceased to be of major interest to me, and apparently to thousands of other weekend sailors.
America's Cup racing is like the space program. It costs millions and millions of dollars to compete, the average joe can only watch from the sidelines, and the development of innovative products trickle down to the masses several years later. I used to follow the races with interest, once was in San Diego when they were racing, and actually saw several of the boats up close. Now the news of the races is only a blip on the radar screen. I don't think the race is broken, but it has ceased to be of major interest to me, and apparently to thousands of other weekend sailors.
Not getting the point
What everyone is missing is an American Team. I wanted to see Larry Ellison captain a boat with Americans onboard, not a mixture. This race has always been about countries competing against each other, not commodity athletes competing. There were other boats with more Americans onboard than the so-called "American" boat. Same with the Tour de France type racing. I don't cheer for the U.S. POstal service team, it is full of non Americans. I cheer for single American racers. It's hard to cheer for the American navigator on an Italian boat, and I am not going to cheer for a so-called American boat full of other countrymen. I didn't even watch it on TV.
What everyone is missing is an American Team. I wanted to see Larry Ellison captain a boat with Americans onboard, not a mixture. This race has always been about countries competing against each other, not commodity athletes competing. There were other boats with more Americans onboard than the so-called "American" boat. Same with the Tour de France type racing. I don't cheer for the U.S. POstal service team, it is full of non Americans. I cheer for single American racers. It's hard to cheer for the American navigator on an Italian boat, and I am not going to cheer for a so-called American boat full of other countrymen. I didn't even watch it on TV.
Not what it used to be
Ah, the good old days. I recently read a book I found in a used book store that chronicled the cup defense effort of Mariner in the early or mid '70's. Ted Turner was the skipper. It was an ulimately unsuccessful effort (another boat was chosed by the NYYC to defend), but I couldn't help but be struck by not only the contrasts between then and now, but also the similarities. Ok, we have nobody like Ted around now, but Ted was unique then too. Technology and costs were king then, as well as now. And the hunt for money to support the project was the same then as now. What was really different back then was who was in charge: because it was the NYYC, things were run in a lock-jaw, Thurston Howell III sort of way. Dress codes on the spectator boats, funny pants, very tight-lipped all around. The Cup was their own playground, not for the general public. my favorite part of the book though was Dennis Conner. Back then DC was a virtual unknown, so when he shows up midway through the campaign, Ted and the rest of the guys don't know much about this guy from San Diego except his reputation. Dennis is made helmsman for the starts, and he proceeds to kick everyone's ass. I mean, he kicks them well and good. It was very clear that he was just head and shoulders better than anyone else there. He eventually is made helmsman over Ted. It really was enjoyable to read about how Dennis and Ted were perceived then, after all that has happened to the both of them since. This years' Cup? What happened? I don't know as my cable company dropped OLN/Versus a couple of years ago. I probably would have watched some of the coverage, as I liked it last time. However, I never watched a whole race, and I doubt I would have done so this time. Do I care? Not really. Sailboat racing is one of those things that I find much more enjoyable to do rather than watch. It's not like I can pick up pointers on starts or how to trim sails from these guys. I don't think it is a blow against our "national pride" either as the Cup ceased to be a national thing years ago. As others have pointed out, it really is a corporate thing now. In case anyone failed to notice it, the "American" entry was named after a German car manufacturer, and had a Kiwi skipper. "We" didn't lose anything. A couple of bazillionaires took an ego trip, and few companies spent their marketing dollars. Not something to get too worked up about.
Ah, the good old days. I recently read a book I found in a used book store that chronicled the cup defense effort of Mariner in the early or mid '70's. Ted Turner was the skipper. It was an ulimately unsuccessful effort (another boat was chosed by the NYYC to defend), but I couldn't help but be struck by not only the contrasts between then and now, but also the similarities. Ok, we have nobody like Ted around now, but Ted was unique then too. Technology and costs were king then, as well as now. And the hunt for money to support the project was the same then as now. What was really different back then was who was in charge: because it was the NYYC, things were run in a lock-jaw, Thurston Howell III sort of way. Dress codes on the spectator boats, funny pants, very tight-lipped all around. The Cup was their own playground, not for the general public. my favorite part of the book though was Dennis Conner. Back then DC was a virtual unknown, so when he shows up midway through the campaign, Ted and the rest of the guys don't know much about this guy from San Diego except his reputation. Dennis is made helmsman for the starts, and he proceeds to kick everyone's ass. I mean, he kicks them well and good. It was very clear that he was just head and shoulders better than anyone else there. He eventually is made helmsman over Ted. It really was enjoyable to read about how Dennis and Ted were perceived then, after all that has happened to the both of them since. This years' Cup? What happened? I don't know as my cable company dropped OLN/Versus a couple of years ago. I probably would have watched some of the coverage, as I liked it last time. However, I never watched a whole race, and I doubt I would have done so this time. Do I care? Not really. Sailboat racing is one of those things that I find much more enjoyable to do rather than watch. It's not like I can pick up pointers on starts or how to trim sails from these guys. I don't think it is a blow against our "national pride" either as the Cup ceased to be a national thing years ago. As others have pointed out, it really is a corporate thing now. In case anyone failed to notice it, the "American" entry was named after a German car manufacturer, and had a Kiwi skipper. "We" didn't lose anything. A couple of bazillionaires took an ego trip, and few companies spent their marketing dollars. Not something to get too worked up about.
American Boat my Foot
Maybe we should supply an American Boat with all Americans instead of every nationality under the sun. A quik scan of the remaining boats indicates there are more Americans on them then were on the one American boat in the field. Also let the sailors run the program keep the amateurs with the deep pockets out of the day to day workings. Jeff H.
Maybe we should supply an American Boat with all Americans instead of every nationality under the sun. A quik scan of the remaining boats indicates there are more Americans on them then were on the one American boat in the field. Also let the sailors run the program keep the amateurs with the deep pockets out of the day to day workings. Jeff H.
The Americas Cup has joined the ranks
of Pro competition touring events like NASCAR, GOLF, Tennis, Figure Skating, Bike Racing and others. Economics or money drives the show for sponsors, host cities (hotels, restaurants), souvenier manufactureres, Media, boat crews and many others. Now we are seeing more leveled competion as the boats are regulated and the syndicates are free to assemble a crew of their choice. For how long would a pro sport survive this day if the same team won every year? That was a rich man's fancy to build and sail a boat to the US when his chances of winning were nill. With so little sailing programing on TV a show like this is very welcomed, who cares where the sponsors and the sailors hail from.
of Pro competition touring events like NASCAR, GOLF, Tennis, Figure Skating, Bike Racing and others. Economics or money drives the show for sponsors, host cities (hotels, restaurants), souvenier manufactureres, Media, boat crews and many others. Now we are seeing more leveled competion as the boats are regulated and the syndicates are free to assemble a crew of their choice. For how long would a pro sport survive this day if the same team won every year? That was a rich man's fancy to build and sail a boat to the US when his chances of winning were nill. With so little sailing programing on TV a show like this is very welcomed, who cares where the sponsors and the sailors hail from.
Where have all the sailors gone?
I moved to Indianapolis IN from Florida as a result of two wicked ladies, Katrina and Wilma! Needles to say, I miss the Ocean! However, I try to make up for it by sailing my O'Day 22, every chance I get even if it is on a Lake! Recently, A. J. Foyt was here in Indy for the 500. He had an interview during which he said “...no one will win Indy 4 times like I did! They may win it 4 times, but not like I did! I was the driver, the mechanic, and if I had to …” He is absolutely right! His pit crew was made up of volunteers who had regular jobs when not racing. Today, a pit crew works all year at being a pit crew and gets paid, and paid well. Of course, then Indianapolis Speedway was known as the “Brick Yard,” and we did not have “PRO PLAYER STADIUM” named for underwear, or “NATIONAL CAR RENTAL CENTER” or even “THE LUCAS OIL CENTER!” We did, however, have “JOE ROBBIE STADIUM” named for a man who made a life long contribution to sports in general, but to sports in South Florida in particular. We also had “CANDLESTICK PARK” “SOLDIERS FIELD” and “FENWAY PARK” and not corporate slogans and plush millionairs suites! Sports have become a multi-billion dollar enterprise with smug lawyers, half witted union reps and brazen billionaires pulling the strings of overpaid, under-“brained” and out of control athletes. What happened to the days when nice guys played the game, raced cars or boats, because they loved to play the game or be in a race? Unfortunately, America’s Cup racing has suffered the same fate as all sports! Yacht racing has never been the sport of ordinary laborers or factory workers, but it has not become the play toy of the super-mega rich corporations until the last 15 years or so. Things started to fall apart when land-lubber judges and lawyers got their hands in the yacht racing rules book interpreting things that needed no interpretation, way back in the mid to late 1960’s. That should have told us where things were heading! But the pendulum swings in two directions. The swing in this, the wrong direction, is nearly over, fortunately! With that for a backdrop, I do not much care about America’s Cup anymore. Not really! A judge lost if for us, and now it has been tarnished! And besides, I have never been much of an “observer” anyway, however, you can find me several times a week on my boat sailing, or in my kayak enjoying the sights of nature, or doing whatever it is that I happen love above all others that particular day.
I moved to Indianapolis IN from Florida as a result of two wicked ladies, Katrina and Wilma! Needles to say, I miss the Ocean! However, I try to make up for it by sailing my O'Day 22, every chance I get even if it is on a Lake! Recently, A. J. Foyt was here in Indy for the 500. He had an interview during which he said “...no one will win Indy 4 times like I did! They may win it 4 times, but not like I did! I was the driver, the mechanic, and if I had to …” He is absolutely right! His pit crew was made up of volunteers who had regular jobs when not racing. Today, a pit crew works all year at being a pit crew and gets paid, and paid well. Of course, then Indianapolis Speedway was known as the “Brick Yard,” and we did not have “PRO PLAYER STADIUM” named for underwear, or “NATIONAL CAR RENTAL CENTER” or even “THE LUCAS OIL CENTER!” We did, however, have “JOE ROBBIE STADIUM” named for a man who made a life long contribution to sports in general, but to sports in South Florida in particular. We also had “CANDLESTICK PARK” “SOLDIERS FIELD” and “FENWAY PARK” and not corporate slogans and plush millionairs suites! Sports have become a multi-billion dollar enterprise with smug lawyers, half witted union reps and brazen billionaires pulling the strings of overpaid, under-“brained” and out of control athletes. What happened to the days when nice guys played the game, raced cars or boats, because they loved to play the game or be in a race? Unfortunately, America’s Cup racing has suffered the same fate as all sports! Yacht racing has never been the sport of ordinary laborers or factory workers, but it has not become the play toy of the super-mega rich corporations until the last 15 years or so. Things started to fall apart when land-lubber judges and lawyers got their hands in the yacht racing rules book interpreting things that needed no interpretation, way back in the mid to late 1960’s. That should have told us where things were heading! But the pendulum swings in two directions. The swing in this, the wrong direction, is nearly over, fortunately! With that for a backdrop, I do not much care about America’s Cup anymore. Not really! A judge lost if for us, and now it has been tarnished! And besides, I have never been much of an “observer” anyway, however, you can find me several times a week on my boat sailing, or in my kayak enjoying the sights of nature, or doing whatever it is that I happen love above all others that particular day.
don't want it bad enough
America's cup if they wanted it bad enough they would have it. from what i heard from the skipper of BMW oracle, he sounded defeated before they lost! you don't win that way, saying that you will redouble your effort in a low tone of voice,,,,,is a loser. if i was paying the bills, i would give him a Texas back rub. then inforce the "he needed killin' law".
America's cup if they wanted it bad enough they would have it. from what i heard from the skipper of BMW oracle, he sounded defeated before they lost! you don't win that way, saying that you will redouble your effort in a low tone of voice,,,,,is a loser. if i was paying the bills, i would give him a Texas back rub. then inforce the "he needed killin' law".
Scrambled memories
It goes to show how little the general public cared about the Cup in past campaigns that so many are confused about what transpired. First, America's Cup is named after the yacht America that took the first cup in an 1851 fleet race around the Isle of Wight. Thus the name of the cup is tied to the vessel, not the country, and is suitably universal. In the campaigns of the post-world war era the crews were mostly a collection of talented mercenaries from all over the world working for millionaire owners. The idea that the crews were all of one nationality is a fantasy coming from people who weren't watching back in the day. The current format of the race--where the boats are now all standardized and the crews are all hard-working non-millionaire joes like you and me--may be the logical format for a modern sporting event, but it's killed a lot of the mystique that made the old cup culture a media circus. The boats are now as disposable as bobsleds; I doubt you'll want to pay hundreds of dollars per person for an uncomfortable ride on one of these at Newport when the heritage cup fleet sails on weekends. On the bright side, television coverage is getting better as graphics and cameras are improved for explaining the race to viewers. Graphics and overhead views are essential for this sport, and the Valencia broadcasts are more interesting than any I remember from the past. The overhead view of the New Zealand and Italian boats sailing backward to the starting line last week started to revive my interest in the strategy again...
It goes to show how little the general public cared about the Cup in past campaigns that so many are confused about what transpired. First, America's Cup is named after the yacht America that took the first cup in an 1851 fleet race around the Isle of Wight. Thus the name of the cup is tied to the vessel, not the country, and is suitably universal. In the campaigns of the post-world war era the crews were mostly a collection of talented mercenaries from all over the world working for millionaire owners. The idea that the crews were all of one nationality is a fantasy coming from people who weren't watching back in the day. The current format of the race--where the boats are now all standardized and the crews are all hard-working non-millionaire joes like you and me--may be the logical format for a modern sporting event, but it's killed a lot of the mystique that made the old cup culture a media circus. The boats are now as disposable as bobsleds; I doubt you'll want to pay hundreds of dollars per person for an uncomfortable ride on one of these at Newport when the heritage cup fleet sails on weekends. On the bright side, television coverage is getting better as graphics and cameras are improved for explaining the race to viewers. Graphics and overhead views are essential for this sport, and the Valencia broadcasts are more interesting than any I remember from the past. The overhead view of the New Zealand and Italian boats sailing backward to the starting line last week started to revive my interest in the strategy again...
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